Welcome to the USSA

orionburn · Post by **orionburn** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:55 pm

About acorn i don't know for sure but i believe if i recall correctly that they help push laws to facilitate bad mortgages loan.I don't know i kinda heard something like that and then it went away............someone might be able to correct or educate me on that subject.

You're on the right path. Acorn has a few different wings. They're a "community activist" group. One part of them is in the doghouse because of the fraud accusations. Another wing of Acorn was to fight for the poor in trying to get them into homes. Never mind the fact they couldn't afford them. Their mindset (like most Dems and Liberals) is that everybody is entitled to have a home. They wanted to get them into a house but didn't bother to ever think of how they could afford it. They pushed for the ease in restrictions on loans....and it's now apparent what that did for the country.

nynoah · Post by **nynoah** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:58 pm

Orion, I don't think you are understanding what Biden is saying. I think Biden is right. But you are not understanding what he is saying to you. What Biden is saying is the people who really pull the strings are going to pull some. Call me crazy I don't care. There is a reason why Carter was given so much hell when he was president. Why? Because he did what was morally right in many cases, not what the people in power wanted. Things like the Panama Canal being signed over. Trying to get the country to switch to renewable energy. Those things threatened the corrupt powers that be. Those people decided the only way to stop those things was to tank his presidency. Its not hard to do for those in power. Call the Saudis or some other people and tell them to stop pumping. Pay them to do it. It is no coincidence that the first thing Reagan did was to take down the solar panels off the roof of the white house and end all Carters renewable energy plans. Obama may try to reform things. But the powers that control much of the capital (money) in this country will try their hardest to screw him and the rest of us along the way.

I gave up a long time ago being naive. I gave up the silly notion that bad things can not happen here because it is America. We are all human and some humans are evil or do evil things. No country is immune. Jesus basically stood up and did the right thing. In the end he was crucified by those who hold the greater power. It happened to Carter in a way. The lesson of that can be applied to many things in life. If Obama does stand up and do what is in the best interest of all the people not just the moneyed elite, he will have a lot of resistance. Some of it might be violent. Some of it may be false flag operations blamed out outsiders. The history of the world if full of things like that. It is not uncommon. Hitler burned down the reichstag.

I hope Obama does the right thing. I do hope. But at the same time, I know the whole system is corrupt no matter what. I just have more confidence in the moral compass of the party that seeks to help all regardless of money.

Call me a hippy, or what ever. But after seeing people die at the Pentagon that day (I was there helping save others) I just think there is more to this world than the defense of the corrupt money system we live in.

McCain has become all that he fought against.

Socialism............... really what is wrong with a philosophy that seeks to help all mankind? Is it better to have one where humans don't matter and only money does?

If you are a Christian (orian I suspect you are with your reference to huchabee) Do you honestly think Jesus would have issue with sharing the resources of the world with all of mankind. Would he complain about not getting a tax cut?

Democracy is supposed to be the only form of gov that IS the people. So through our democracy and our collective choices and votes, we can all chose to help each other.

the down fall of America has been the fact that we have become selfish. I don't know about you, but the world is bigger than just me. That is why I joined the military in the first place.

pacer · Post by **pacer** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:19 pm

nynoah, were you at the pentagon that day? If so did you see evidence of an airplane crash? By the way I pretty much agree with you. They say Kennedy was the last to get full disclosure. He tried to do what was right, and they killed him. The world is not getting better. Hold on

pacer · Post by **pacer** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:21 pm

By the way this is no Democracy. Just say the pledge.

sickle44 · Post by **sickle44** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:41 pm

You know,

I've gotta just add this!
So they shat on Russia for How many years? And because why exactly, they were a communist country?

K and why was communism bad, cause they screwed the people and the rich got richer and the poor keep getting poorer?

Someone remind me again, what's the difference between a democracy and communism again?

How exactly is it democracy when there's not a damn single person I wanna vote for in the first place because they're all just as friggen crooked as the next and couldn't be trusted with their children's bank account nor their parents will?
If it's a democracy shouldn't the people be able to nominate the representative they wanna nominate, not some rich, fat, senator deciding which one of his rich buddies he'd like to nominate; so both him and his buddy can just stay rich!
The country is how much in debt? How long is an election campaign, at what cost, and why exactly was it that long again?
Until countries rid themselves of their dependency on oil, the world will always be crippled on by some crooked bastard deciding how much he'd like to make that weekend.

Sorry if I've offended anyone, just thought I'd throw a bit more s&*t into the mix.

Pacman · Post by **Pacman** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:40 am

We don't live in a democracy, we live in a representative republic.

The most corrupt money grubbing institution is the labor union. Labor unions are the reason the car companies are folding and moving overseas. Because the members of the unions and those who run them can't see the forest for the trees. All they care about is how much money they can get now. They don't care whether they bankrupt the company they work for some time in the future. Labor unions are one of the things that will kill this country.

To say that someone doesn't care about others if they don't vote for Obama is a ridiculous attack. I do care about other people that is why I voluntarily donate money to charities that help people in time of need. However, I don't like the government forcing me to give a certain amount and use jail and the threat of physical force as a way to make me to do it.

And, Communism is an interesting thing in theory. The problem is that when you get human beings involved corruption will always show up. That is one of the core reasons why Communism in all its forms will never work. If you keep giving all the power to a select group of people those people will always have some in the group who will misuse the power. The only way to prevent that is to be very careful what power you give to those select people.

Chris

orionburn · Post by **orionburn** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:42 am

McCain has become all that he fought against.

Trust me I agree with you there. He is not the man he used to be back in the start of the primaries. I remember CNN showing him taking regular buses to go and campaign when he was nearly broke. I admired his courage for continuing on and thought he would continue to stand up against friends & foes alike. I understand why he caved in to the far right. The party would have destroyed itself, which considering the shambles it's in right now probably would have been for the best. Regardless, it was sad to see happen.

Socialism............... really what is wrong with a philosophy that seeks to help all mankind? Is it better to have one where humans don't matter and only money does?

The philosophy is sound, but only in a world where it would actually work. There are too many of those that realize they don't have to do a damn thing and somebody will come along and take care of them. Do I have a problem with helping somebody out? Not at all. But those people I want to help out are the single moms & dads killing themselves working two jobs to make ends meet - not the piece of garbage living on welfare pumping out more kids so she can collect even more welfare. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let the govt decide who should get the money that I worked hard for. Tell you what, if Obama said you need to give x% of your money to "spread the wealth" around I might be for it, but ONLY if I decide who that money goes to. It is not right and the government has no place to decide that for me.

I was brought up learning not to take hand outs from people. My work ethic is that I will own what I have worked for. For that reason alone I will never support socialism. Ever read Atlas Shrugged? It's been awhile since I have, but the views Ayn had in regards to the way the market *should* work is what I believe in. I know her utopian society is a just a pipe dream, and I don't agree with a lot of other things she spoke about, but damn that book is one hell of a read. Give it a try if you haven't.

the down fall of America has been the fact that we have become selfish

Agree again 100%. The people of this nation can keep bitching about the morons we have in office, but until they look in the mirror and realize they are to blame as much as the corrupt officials things won't change. And I say that because for too long we have ignored what DC does on a regular basis and allowed this to happen. Until the American people realize that we can stand up and throw all of these bums out and that our voice will actually make a difference nothing will change. What's the old saying? The government should fear the people; the people should not be afraid of their government.

orionburn · Post by **orionburn** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:50 am

If you are a Christian

I am, but I don't let my beliefs skew my political views. I like Huckabee because he seemed honest and I agreed with him on a lot of his views.

Another view of mine on socialism. I'm not saying it can't work, but that's not the beliefs our founding fathers had. I believe in strict interpretation of the constitution. Our founding fathers would roll in their graves if they could see what a cry baby politically correct nation has become. I'm not afraid of Obama being the president. I'm afraid of a Dem majority ruled congress. If Obama has the chance to appoint two liberal judges to the court (look closely at what Powell said) you can kiss a lot of things goodbye. Look at the Fairness Doctrine. Pelosi supports bringing it back. If the Dems get their way you're going to see a lot of ugly things like that happening.

One last thing - just remember we are all free to disagree. Noah, I'm not here to change your mind nor am I trying to. I like debating issues and that's all there is to it. If our going back and forth gets somebody to wake up and become involved in the system then I'll be happy, even if they don't side with me. We have to get away from the mindset that people will stop being friends because they don't agree politically. Have I seen that happen before? Yes, and it's a pity. Lot of friends are Obama supporters. Doesn't mean I dislike them now. Sure I'm a bit disappointed, but I'm not going to be a baby about it. You're going to have people so far to the left/right that will never open their minds. I for one would rather get viewpoints from somebody like Noah and hear arguments on why they support Obama as opposed to talking on a forum that caters to nothing but the right. Keep it in mind guys. Politics can sour relationships, but don't let it happen on here.

yamcrazy · Post by **yamcrazy** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:32 pm

nynoah wrote:Orion, I don't think you are understanding what Biden is saying. I think Biden is right. But you are not understanding what he is saying to you. What Biden is saying is the people who really pull the strings are going to pull some. Call me crazy I don't care. There is a reason why Carter was given so much hell when he was president. Why? Because he did what was morally right in many cases, not what the people in power wanted. Things like the Panama Canal being signed over. Trying to get the country to switch to renewable energy. Those things threatened the corrupt powers that be. Those people decided the only way to stop those things was to tank his presidency. Its not hard to do for those in power. Call the Saudis or some other people and tell them to stop pumping. Pay them to do it. It is no coincidence that the first thing Reagan did was to take down the solar panels off the roof of the white house and end all Carters renewable energy plans. Obama may try to reform things. But the powers that control much of the capital (money) in this country will try their hardest to screw him and the rest of us along the way.

I gave up a long time ago being naive. I gave up the silly notion that bad things can not happen here because it is America. We are all human and some humans are evil or do evil things. No country is immune. Jesus basically stood up and did the right thing. In the end he was crucified by those who hold the greater power. It happened to Carter in a way. The lesson of that can be applied to many things in life. If Obama does stand up and do what is in the best interest of all the people not just the moneyed elite, he will have a lot of resistance. Some of it might be violent. Some of it may be false flag operations blamed out outsiders. The history of the world if full of things like that. It is not uncommon. Hitler burned down the reichstag.

I hope Obama does the right thing. I do hope. But at the same time, I know the whole system is corrupt no matter what. I just have more confidence in the moral compass of the party that seeks to help all regardless of money.

Call me a hippy, or what ever. But after seeing people die at the Pentagon that day (I was there helping save others) I just think there is more to this world than the defense of the corrupt money system we live in.

McCain has become all that he fought against.

Socialism............... really what is wrong with a philosophy that seeks to help all mankind? Is it better to have one where humans don't matter and only money does?

If you are a Christian (orian I suspect you are with your reference to huchabee) Do you honestly think Jesus would have issue with sharing the resources of the world with all of mankind. Would he complain about not getting a tax cut?

Democracy is supposed to be the only form of gov that IS the people. So through our democracy and our collective choices and votes, we can all chose to help each other.

the down fall of America has been the fact that we have become selfish. I don't know about you, but the world is bigger than just me. That is why I joined the military in the first place.

Man,dude the world is bigger than u that is why u need to look at it I'M SORRY i do not mean to be an ass or disrespectful.
Socialism i grew up in it LIVE IN it and then tell me about it!!!!!!!!!!!You said it yourself this is not a perfect world!!
U are christian so i am. Look what happen in mossul recently and in europe ......and then tell me if u still want someone who as ben associated in any kind of shape or form with AYATTOLAH wright...........but don't worry hamass is gonna help!!!!!!!!!
Also i listened to that ..................... guy talking about forget the deficit ,we get our money back after then we taxe the shit of everybody in this country !!!!!!!!!!
I thought francois mitterand was running for president !!!!!!!!!!!

Seek to help all regardless of money i give it to you man that one almost made me pee in my pants!!!!!!
Noah by god trust me i wish everybody in the world was like u,one said one day:"the day christian be good christian,muslim good muslims jews gonna be good jews then we all leave in peace" it is not the case and if i have to choose between to "evil" i'll pick the one i'm sure is not gonna strip the military witch i actually believe is going to mc cain at least that what i seen this morning ,i don't if it turn i work 12 hrs night shift so i have to wait for tomorrow.................

Post by **FZRDude** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:55 pm

orionburn wrote:......Politics can sour relationships, but don't let it happen on here.....

That's it...... I quit! :ha

KontoBoy · Post by **KontoBoy** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:54 pm

Oh man, I never should of open this thread--now you are going to get me started.... Everyone has their own beliefs, and what we post here is going to do very little to change anyone's.

That said, I'm a Democrat, and have voted with the Democrats except for my first vote for Nixon in 72. This year I had a hard time initially deciding where to remain loyal to the Democrats or vote Republican. I have a lot of respect for McCain, his service to the country, the McCain-Feingold bill that he authored and push through the Congress that brought us he first budget surpluses in more than half a century, He is a true maverick and has pissed off his party more than once being on the right side on big issues, most recently the Patriot Act and Guantanimo.

In contrast, Obama worries me in many ways. He doesn't have an impressive resume, his policies seem vague, and I worry about the programs he proposed that would add to the deficit. He does have charisma and eloquence, he is intelligent and seems willing to explore options, and he does not come across as a president that would condone the elitist tax and regulatory policies we've seen in recent years. These are all characteristics sorely lacking from Bush and not apparent in John McCain.

Still, I was on the fence until the recent banking buyout. Then I was painfully reminded that McCain has always been for deregulation and that is something I don't believe this nation can afford. It's one thing to streamline regulation, but it's another to deregulate which Republicans have pushed since Reagan, and abdicate oversight and enforcement responsibilities which is what Bush's SEC and DOJ has done.

That clinched it for me--I'm voting for Obama. Am I worried about higher taxes? Not really because face it, taxes are going up. We've been living on unsustainable budget deficits for years. Taxes are going to have to go up just to pay the interest on the money we owe to China, Europe and the Middle Eastern countries that buy the bonds that fund our government.

Am I worried about wasteful government spending and expansive new programs under the Democrats? Not really--neither candidate's claims to cut taxes and pay for new programs is credible. They both have their pet proposals. For the Democrats it is spending on social programs. For the Republicans it's tax cuts and military spending. In my view the Republicans lost the right to claim fiscal conservatism way back when Reagan sold "trickle down" tax cuts for the wealthy, expanded the military, and didn't reduce spending leading to massive deficits, and 15 years later Bush 2 did pretty much the same thing with a Republican majority on the House and Senate.

What do I worry about? The economy, even though my wife and I have very stable jobs our retirement funds have been hit pretty hard. The deficit--though neither candidate seems concerned. Our foreign policy, that seems to looks to military action as first option.

Do I worry about taxes--yeah sure--but not so much about them going up as them going up fairly. What's fair? The wealthy paying 60% of all income taxes or the minimum wage earner paying 18% in payroll taxes. What's fair, capital gains taxed at 15% so couple can sell and downsize their home and get some cash when they retire or 45% so the CEOs can cash in his million dollar stock options. Inheritance taxes at 10% so the farmer can pass the family farm to his kids or 50% so Paris Hilton can go to parties in style. People will never agree on what's fair, but they will agree to changes in the tax code that benefit them and will always complain about the taxes they pay and spending on programs they don't directly benefit from.

So I'm voting for Obama. I’m not positive he'll make a good president, but I have more confidence in the Obama-Biden ticket than McCain-Palin. I could be wrong--in hindsight I was wrong when I voted for Nixon as a naive 18 year old in '72. 49% of the voters were wrong in 2000 and 54% in 2004 when they voted for Bush.

And as for the asshole politicians in Washington--hey guys--you sent them here! (I work in DC). If you are complaining about your own representative then campaign against them. If you are complaining about someone else's representative then that's just tough--your district got to send the guy of your choice, they get to send theirs.

Kontoboy

silver · Post by **silver** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:44 am

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/

Of course most Americans don't give a care about the Constitution.

yamcrazy · Post by **yamcrazy** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:21 am

FZRDude wrote:
orionburn wrote:......Politics can sour relationships, but don't let it happen on here.....

That's it...... I quit! :ha

And i'll do the usual french surrending ( sorry could not find a smilley holding a white flag !!) lol

djalbin · Post by **djalbin** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:59 pm

yamcrazy wrote:And i'll do the usual french surrending ( sorry could not find a smilley holding a white flag !!)

You can have this one ...

orionburn · Post by **orionburn** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:49 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LNfgOJY ... re=related

Glenn Beck had a good analogy of this - this would be like coming home and telling your wife that you just lost your job, your savings got wiped out in the market crash and saying "Let's go to the mall!"

Like I said, I fear this type of mindset running Congress more so than either McCain or Obama becoming president.

Konto - see, you're the type of Obama supporter I have no issues with. You've looked at it from all angles and made up your mind which is great. It's the kool-aid drinking buffoons that have no idea what the issues are or where either candidate stands.

One thing that has been bothering me this week is that you have not heard anything from either candidate about gun control, and with Obama coming from a city that has a ban on carry & conceal and a flat out ban on hand guns makes you wonder. The economy sucks right now but it'll eventually come back, but there are so many issues out there that haven't been addressed.

orionburn · Post by **orionburn** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:10 am

FZRDude wrote:
orionburn wrote:......Politics can sour relationships, but don't let it happen on here.....

That's it...... I quit! :ha

Quit being a pansy ass and voice your...voice. I mean it's not like any of us are going to take your opinion seriously anyway

KontoBoy · Post by **KontoBoy** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:26 am

Orion--don't worry about gun control. The Bill of Rights and the Supreme Court have locked in a guarantee that you'll be able to keep your guns. The Supreme Court just over turned DC's ban on handgun ownership, and there is no way will a gun control bill make it through Congress--even a Democratic majority in Congress. There are too many senators from western states that would never allow a bill to get out of the Senate.

If Congress does anything with gun control I think it would be a push for instant background checks and consistent C&C laws across states, but even that would be a hard sell.

On a lighter political note, have you seen this commentary?

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/QfzlAiRGesxP3LYf

Kontoboy

P.S. Also:

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/mePealvI63FcWKaJ

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/fuRk7sE187LlfILX

Pacman · Post by **Pacman** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:11 pm

Actually we may see a new Clinton style partial ban come through. This would likely be a ban on "high" capacity magazines and so called "assault rifles." (Of course, banning any of this stuff does nothing to stop crime.)

The Heller case that threw out the DC ban only said you can't completely ban guns. It didn't say you couldn't ban certain types. That is why we are now seeing the idiot mayor in DC saying you can only have revolvers.

I foresee a partial ban coming down if Obama gets elected. Unfortunately, I don't think McCain is strong enough to say no to one if he gets enough pressure from his buddies in the Senate either. We'll see.

Chris

silver · Post by **silver** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:44 am

Bob Barr
Traveled throughout the world as a son of a Westpoint soldier. Graduated cum laude from USC and earned a masters degree in International Affairs from George Washington University. He has worked as an analyst in the CIA followed by 8 years in the U.S. House of Representatives. He was on the the board of the NRA for 6 years and also a advisor for the ACLU. Aggressively for state governing and very much against any legislation (like the Patriot Act) that infringes on our Constitutional liberties.

orionburn · Post by **orionburn** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:20 pm

silver wrote:Bob Barr

For the hell of it I looked to see how many people were actually running for President and couldn't believe how many there were. Some parties are really off the way, but I don't think it's right that none of these people ever have a chance to be in a national debate. At least let them have one for crying out loud. We saw a tv ad for Barr the other day and my girlfriend said "Who in the hell is that? He's running for President?" and had to explain to her who he was.

I don't think we're ever going to get anywhere with our government until we do away with all the partisan bullshit. I'm more conservative than anything, but I still consider myself an independent. I think there are good things that can come out of both parties. The one thing I am sure of is that that bitch Pelosi needs to get the hell out of D.C. Her and Reid are about the most incompetent people I've ever seen in my life, regardless of what party they belong to.