Tyre Wear

Ton up · Post by **Ton up** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:51 pm

I did a track day with my FZR1000 on Saturday, it went pretty well, all things considered. I finally have a reasonable set up and I was able to corner pretty well. But I’ve noticed something that makes me think the setup can be improved further, and I’m wondering if someone could give me some advice. Below you’ll see some photos. The first two are of the right hand side of the front and rear tyres, I’ve drawn a line showing where the tyre is wearing to (note I mean wearing, not scrubbing). The rear is wearing nearly to the edge* and the front is miles from the edge. It seems to me that the wear on the tyres should be more even- has any one got any thoughts on this? This has me thinking that I need to raise the rear, as when I accidentally had the rear shock set too firm and the forks too soft the wear on the tyres was more even. Maybe the front aspect ratio is too high? * Yes I know I should be wearing right up to the edge, but this bike has been badly set up for two years and I’ve learnt some bad habits as a result! <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/ ... Rfront.jpg" style="border:0;"/> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/ ... ZRrear.jpg" style="border:0;"/><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/ ... Rrear2.jpg" style="border:0;"/> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bexupbrotherhoo ... =tonup>Ton up</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/ ... nsmall.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 9/5/04 2:53 pm

Post by **FZRDude** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:40 pm

Here are pics of my tires. I'm a lazy rider, so don't give me any grief. Ever sice I have been riding, I seem to always be closer to the edge on the front and never on the rear. (Note the MichelinMan to gauge the distances.) Front 5k miles PilotSport <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/ ...  Rear 2.5k miles PilotSport <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/ ...  The red line is where I adventure to from time to time. The yellow line is my consistant lean angle. I'm just not one to really push it on the street. Now this weekend might be a different story. And yes, my bike is dirty but, I do ride it everyday. Tim <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/ ...   Has anyone seen my keys? Dir. of Entertainment<a href="http://eddieandthecruisersmc.com" target="top"> Eddie & the Cruisers</a> '94 FZR 1000

djalbin · Post by **djalbin** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:42 pm

My tires wear edges (a.k.a chicken strips) are about the same front and rear with a 120/70 and 180/55 combination (3.5mm rear lift). The front tire wear was at the edge of the tire when I had a 120/60, and the rear was not near the edge when I had a 190/50. Don

dragracer1951 · Post by **dragracer1951** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:24 am

How much tire pressure in each? track temp? ambient temp? front and rear sag? oil weight and level in fork? all of these things will have an effect. Looks like to me though that your front end may be a little firm and not hooking up as well as it could rear looks like it also could be a bit firm or you're spooling the tire off corners (could be anyway if too firm) stock springs??? What do you weigh? Sorry for all the questions but they arr have an effect Food for thought... Jim

Ton up · Post by **Ton up** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:22 pm

How much tire pressure in each? Set to 34psi both ends at local servo with their digital pressure guage after riding for less than 2km at 50km/h. Air temp at time was about -2°C. Tried dropping the front by 2psi before last 15 minute session as the front wasn't getting as tacky as the rear. Seemed to work. Tried measuring this morning (4 days later) with my 'precision pressure guage' that reads precisely 3 psi too high<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> ) and got 33F and 36R which would be 30F and 33R track temp? No idea- not very warm?<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"> ambient temp? 12°C front and rear sag? Impossible to set rear sag- sqeaky rear shock thang, will get around to fixing (I promise!) oil weight and level in fork? As per manual stock springs??? Yup. Rear preload 1-2mm more than stated in manual, the theory being that after 40k km the spring will be getting tired. Front preload on first click in. What do you weigh? about 80kg in riding gear, 176 pounds Edited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bexupbrotherhoo ... =tonup>Ton up</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/ ... nsmall.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 9/8/04 1:23 pm

cterror · Post by **cterror** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:18 pm

cant really say anything about your orig. problem, but I (and my friends) are driving with 29-30psi in both ends at track. if its a very warm day, im driving with less. note that these are values of an cold tire. from what you posted, it seems that you will have to change the rear shock in order to have your bike balanced right. you have tensed up your front, but if your rear packs up, your bike will be harder to lean, especially on mid-corner where rearsuspension is compressed most.

Exupilot · Post by **Exupilot** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:49 pm

Hey Tim, judging from your tyre wear, do you wear leathers or a skirt?<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> We used to blitz the michlin man within the first 10 min... Rob

Post by **FZRDude** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:24 pm

Must be a skirt. I don't get out as much as I should and it is used more for around town riding than anything else. Plus I don't like to ride at my limits, just don't feel the need to. Tim <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/ ...   Has anyone seen my keys? Dir. of Entertainment<a href="http://eddieandthecruisersmc.com" target="top"> Eddie & the Cruisers</a> '94 FZR 1000

djalbin · Post by **djalbin** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:09 pm

I don't know what the average unused tire edge wear is for street riders. You can take it further on the track. I would guess that street riders who take the corners wear the tires to within an inch (2.54 cm) of the edge. You need to leave some in reserve for those unexpected incidents. Don

Post by **FZRDude** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:00 pm

0.5 inch = 1.27 centimeter of unused tire on front 0.75 inch = 1.905 centimeter of unused tire on rear, give or take. Don makes a good point as well. Tim <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/ ...   Has anyone seen my keys? Dir. of Entertainment<a href="http://eddieandthecruisersmc.com" target="top"> Eddie & the Cruisers</a> '94 FZR 1000

Ton up · Post by **Ton up** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:21 pm

I sent an email my local tyre shop showing them the wear patterns etc and they forwarded it to Dunlop. This is the reply: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>First of all the wear on the tyre.The D208 is modern tyre made for modern bikes with high ride height at the back and a low front end which means that you can get the use of what seams like unrealistic shape of the front tyre.When your FZR was new, tyres of the time had flat profiles which suited the set up of the bike. So in short if you added a heap of ride hieght and dropped the forks through the clamps it would one allow you to use all of the tyre and secondly make you bike handle badly as the bike is not designed to be set up like this.I would recommend trying D220 as they are much more suited to this type of bike with shape and if you are worried about grip remember they didn't have tyres this good in 1989.<hr></blockquote> So, what do you all think? It could well be that he is following the standard line of not advising to change the set up of the bike for fear of litigation, but I can see his point. It would be interesting to see what the weight distribution is like with a rider on board, as I assume the idea would be to always have a 50-50 distribution front and rear. If there really is little point in using modern sporty tires then I think my next set will be Bridgestones, as where ever I go I find people that really don't like Dunlops. I reckon the Dunlops are a good tyre, but then I haven't tried Bridgestones... My theory with the front end is that if it's not using nearly as much front tyre as back tyre, then the contact patch must be smaller than it should be- kind of like putting a 100 or 90 wide tyre on- that can't be a good thing with a heavy ol' FZR!

RiceRocket1 · Post by **RiceRocket1** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:06 pm

A bud of mine is a racer and I had made a comment to him about front and rear tire wear. If your making it to the edge of the rear on the street your riding to hard for the street (sand, animals, other vehicles and kids), if your doing it on the track thats great. Front tire you don't want to make it to the edge on either because you will soon run out of tire and send the bike sliding down the road/track. Makes sense to me considering the lap times he runs and the front on his isn't at the edge but the rear gets shredded..... Jim

Exupilot · Post by **Exupilot** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:50 am

spot on....... Rob

RiceRocket1 · Post by **RiceRocket1** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:49 pm

The pics are of the tires on my 95 FZR 1000 after a track day and post track day milage. As you can see the rear are run right to the edge but the front have 1/4 an inch to go, and I still managed to scrape the left peg. left side rear <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/ ...  right side rear <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/ ...  left side front <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/ ...  right side front <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/ ...

Ton up · Post by **Ton up** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:56 pm

RiceRocket1, they look like D208's- what profiles do you have front and rear? I have a theory that if I fix the sqeaky rear end to get the swingarm moving smoothly then set the sag, right the wear patterns will even up to be more like yours.

RiceRocket1 · Post by **RiceRocket1** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:00 pm

From what I can see in your pics the tires look good, maybe just need to play with the pressure a bit. In my photo's above the tires have been "smoothed" out from street riding since the track day. This was right after loading the bike on the trailer for the ride home. <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/ ...  I'm running Dunlop D208's street compound, Front is 120/70 ZR 17, Rear is 180/55 ZR 17. Track day tire pressure was measured cold, front 32.5 PSI, Rear 31.5 PSI. As far as suspension settings Front and rear ***to soft*** suspension is built around a 160# rider and I weigh in at 250#. Off season rebuild will be a complete Racetech rebuild for the front end and a Penske 8981 rear shock for the back, both rated for my weight.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> Hope this helps... Jim 95 FZR1000Edited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bexupbrotherhoo ... Rocket1</A> at: 9/22/04 5:38 pm

Post by **jjs777** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:31 pm

great pics ricerocket1 - I meant to send ya an email asking you to post pics of your tires for this thread (ur tires looked good when I saw them in person!) -John 95 FZR1000 90 FZR1000

RiceRocket1 · Post by **RiceRocket1** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:12 pm

Showed the pic of your rear tire to my bud the racer. Before I even said something he said it looks like something is wrong with the suspension or the track was terrible.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

Ton up · Post by **Ton up** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:41 pm

I assume you mean my tyre- It will be the rear suspension- there were 2 things wrong with it when I went to the track 1) the shock has done 40,000km so doubtless it is fecked 2) the linkages were sticking- I fixed that yesterday and it made a huge difference, more grip + smoother ride. I still have problem 1 though <img src=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/ ... ng_sad.gif ALT=":sad">

Nbot · Post by **Nbot** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:54 pm

RiceRocket, I see that you've got a '95 fzr1000, and mine's a '94...so I'm wondering what you have to say about that email by Tonup from Dunlop? I recently had my rear slide out at the track with the Dunlop 220's and badly want to upgrade to tires that won't fail me at the track (but that won't melt on just a couple trips to work either). Have you raised your rear w/ shorter dogbones or lowered your fork height? What do you all think of the "taller" profile of the 208's vs. the "flatter" 220's? Any problems really??????? RiceR..are yours the ZR or GP? Also, has anyone hear ridden the Pilot powers? I seen some great reviews of them elsewhere and can't seem to find the thread here where everyone was talking about them...Does Dunlop even make the 207 anymore? So I'm thinking either Pirelli Diablo or Diablo Corsa, 208 GP, or Pilot powers. Who has ridden these? Any problems? Nbot '94 Fizzer Litre

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