MyFZR1000Crank Before and After Falicon

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sickle44
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MyFZR1000Crank Before and After Falicon

Post by sickle44 »

Hey Fellows,

I said I'd post pics of my goodies when I got them, and I've finally got them and all's I can say is, WOW!! Money well spent!

So there are three similar pics of a before and after, I think the crank lost somewhere in between 2 to 3 pounds overall. Just bizzare to think how much has come off and this is only the first level of lightening/balancing. I can't wait to see what it does for the handling of the machine and speed of the revving.

Cheers.

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Michael
Yes Yes I know, I said, I'm building a project YZF1070

Basement is done now, 850 finished and gone...
Gotta get the new siding up on the house.
Fixing the FZ1 up, cleaning up garage and then I might even begin

hotcam
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Post by hotcam »

Um, WOW.

want!
-------
'95 FZR1040 '09 FZ1-S
"And they had a machine, a dream of a machine, with wheels and gears and perfect in every respect, and they lived on it..." -Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad"

YEC_YZF750SP
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Post by YEC_YZF750SP »

Yes, please excuse me while I grab a box of kleenex and lube. ;)

Looks like I'll be using Falicon to lighten & balance my brand new SP crank.

McFizzer
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Post by McFizzer »

this is sex. how much do they charge for something like this?
-Anthony-
::1992 FZR 1000::
Under construction at the moment.

sickle44
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Post by sickle44 »

Bill was $523, probably came to 'round $650 with shipping and everything. I do believe the regular price is 623 though. APE quoted me a fraction of that price for the same job, however, I'm not sure their repuatation is as prestigious as Falicon's. It may also be one of those things where you get your final bill and with "all the extras" it adds up to near the same. Only a completed comparable crank job at APE would truly tell though.

I'm doing the entire engine though so.... if you're gonna do it, better do it right the first time, and do it ONCE, Hopefully! At least those are my thougths, which is also why my project doesn't really have a time limit, it'll be done when it's done.
Last edited by sickle44 on Wed May 26, 2010 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael
Yes Yes I know, I said, I'm building a project YZF1070

Basement is done now, 850 finished and gone...
Gotta get the new siding up on the house.
Fixing the FZ1 up, cleaning up garage and then I might even begin

haunter
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Post by haunter »

lookin good!
88 FZR 1000 - SuperTrap, K&N, FP kit - sold
90 FZR 1000 - 1040, Ohlins, 91 USD's...some other stuff - sold

93 FZR 600 - rat/cafe/POS/Trackbike Project
03 SV1000S - bye bye
06 R6 50th Anniversary - slip on, PCIII, race rails

Overkill
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Post by Overkill »

Bike porn

sickle44
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Post by sickle44 »

Thanks guys,

Gives new meaning to the phrase;
I'm'Just'a'shinin'ma'pole, just'a'shinin'ma'pole!
Michael
Yes Yes I know, I said, I'm building a project YZF1070

Basement is done now, 850 finished and gone...
Gotta get the new siding up on the house.
Fixing the FZ1 up, cleaning up garage and then I might even begin

McFizzer
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Post by McFizzer »

Between this and billet clutch baskets I'm drooling... 2-3 pounds is a lot for just a "stage 1" I guess you can say. That price is awesome to for what you get..

Being that I'm going to have to spilt the cases for the tranny problem... :? I might as well pony up the cash n just go this route with a JE 1040 kit n the basket... Hmmm damn near 2 grand with all the gaskets.
So on top off taking A LOT of weight off the rotation mass and making the engine. How much HP/Tq is to be gained from just the crank? And by shaving and polishing the lobes, does it make the crank weaker at all? I'm in the states so hopefully thatd keep prices down on shipping. Tuesday I'll give Falicon a call n poke my head into things.

Sorry for the questions just trying to learn more.. Only 21 and I know all you lot have been around this stuff for as long as I've been dreaming.. Lol

I got quoted for 240 to have my headed bored and honed for the 1040 kit. Is this too much or is there somewhere else I can send everything out to, to get done cheaper? My 1st experience dealing with a machining shop... He said turn around was 2-4 days

Cheers
-Anthony-
::1992 FZR 1000::
Under construction at the moment.

sickle44
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Post by sickle44 »

$240 is more than fair Anthony all things considered, especially with a 2-4 day turn around, that's unreal really? !! WOW.

I'm doing a 1070 Kit myself and had to resleeve but got incredible pricing on a lot of things, still, 2K isn't much at all when doing a motor, make sure you keep a bit of cash aside for the unknowns, and there are ALWAYS unknowns.

You might try APE in California too for some of the work as it seemed their prices were way cheaper but then again, I wouldn't know for sure until the bill came for real. If you're going to go Falicon, and I would recommend, make sure you ask for Sean and let him know you know about my price at $523 instead of 623.

Not sure about HP gains, but 3lbs is absolutely HUGE, and yeah, you wouldn't want to go with their stage 2 or 3 unless you want to keep it idling at 2500rpm. I can't wait to just to know how much faster it's going to rev and turn. The big thing with the polishing and knife edge is that you'll have much less hydrostatic losses from the crank having to push it's way through an oil bath, hence the reason why race bikes go with a dry sump. Crank won't be weaker at all either so no worries there man.

Hope this helps.
Last edited by sickle44 on Mon May 31, 2010 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Michael
Yes Yes I know, I said, I'm building a project YZF1070

Basement is done now, 850 finished and gone...
Gotta get the new siding up on the house.
Fixing the FZ1 up, cleaning up garage and then I might even begin

hotcam
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Post by hotcam »

McFizzer wrote:JE 1040 kit n the basket... Hmmm damn near 2 grand with all the gaskets. ...How much HP/Tq is to be gained from just the crank? ...
And by shaving and polishing the lobes, does it make the crank weaker at all?...I got quoted for 240 to have my headed bored and honed for the 1040 kit.
2 grand is pretty well minimum price for a rebuild, you're doing well. It
WILL be worth it.

YES DO get a billet basket from Falicon. The stock basket is fatally flawed
in my opinion, and has to be babied when taking off from the lights
instead of thrashed like it ought ta!

JE or Wiseco 1040 is a good idea while you're in there. No point building a
motor with tired pistons and rings, that's where the power comes from.

HP/Torque from a lighter crank? In effect, yes. See,
what happens is, some of the energy released by burning the petrol is
used up in spinning up the crank to a higher RPM. If you have a lighter
crank, more of that energy gets to the back wheel and the crank spins
up quicker. So, faster acceleration! If you put it on a dyno, the effect
will be to show more HP at any revs, however the amount of extra HP will
differ according to what gear you are in (!).

Shaving and polishing the lobes does not weaken anything. It makes
the crank stronger. The lobes are just there for the weight, if you lighten
that weight there is less stress on the crankshaft. Polishing seals the
surface and makes it difficult for cracks to start. I'm not sure there's any
measurable benefit in terms of hydrostatic drag, but it's certainly not
going to be worse.

240 for boring and honing sounds normal. Same as mine was.
BUT when you have the block off, get the head gasket mating surfaces
re-finished. That'll give a better seal on the head gasket. You might also
like to take 0.2mm-0.5mm off the block to increase compression
(makes 12.7-13.0 with a 1040 kit). That gives power everywhere.
-------
'95 FZR1040 '09 FZ1-S
"And they had a machine, a dream of a machine, with wheels and gears and perfect in every respect, and they lived on it..." -Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad"

sickle44
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Post by sickle44 »

Yes, lightened crank will add HP, I just didn't know where to even guess for a number of how much, but Cam hit the nail on the head.
I know you had talked about the basket before and then...... ALL I can say dude, is really what you've already told yourself, PONY UP!!!

Do it right, and you won't be caught doing it a second time. For me, it was a no-brainer, K, it's a known weekpoint, and I'm hoping to achieve 150-160 at the back wheel with how much time, money, and energy, I certainly don't want exploded clutch fragments, screwing my beautiful crank, pistons, back cut 6 speed, and so on, and so on.
suddenly $367 seems like a helluva good deal, know what I mean?

And don't forget:

to degree the cams,
shim stack the valve springs so they all have equal spring pressure.
do a good valve job, I'm increasing middle intake by a mm,
port polish the head
apparently there's wisdom in replacing both cam and Hy-Vo chains, got a cam chain for cheap from eBay, but I dread to think the cost of replacing the Hy-Vo
There are some trick bits to buy from Factory pro for the slicker shifting and if you want to burn up some more dough, I know APE will do gear back cutting.
Strongly suggest you do igniton upgrade as well, Nology or another
Don't forget to relocate your oil pickup too if you're a wheelie guy

Never be sorry 'bout the questions dude. Do some back reading of all the posts too, not only is it good reading, you learn a tonne too.
Michael
Yes Yes I know, I said, I'm building a project YZF1070

Basement is done now, 850 finished and gone...
Gotta get the new siding up on the house.
Fixing the FZ1 up, cleaning up garage and then I might even begin

McFizzer
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Post by McFizzer »

thanks Micheal and Cam. I've read through Cam's 1040 build and your current process of converting to FI. I really wanna see pictures!! it must look so beautiful. Im trying to gather as much as possible because like you say, "do it right the first time".

the 1040 kit is no doubt going in, hopefully score a new JE kit in augest and start gathering parts as much as I can. Doesn't D.I.D make a cam chain to be had for between 30-40 dollars?

How much should I degree the cam's if I were to put a set in from a YZF750? I've read theyre better, and should the intake and exhaust cam be the same degree?

I do want to change ignition. Im more or less going to incoporate into the motor build. I like the MC-3.. there was a Powerpak for sale on ebay with a buy it now for 100 -_- Also could you call Ignitech(spelling?; brit website?) that make custom ignitors. Are there any better coils to use? Or could you use a COP set up?

Cheers guys
-Anthony-
::1992 FZR 1000::
Under construction at the moment.

sickle44
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Post by sickle44 »

Coil on plug is not a good idea as it's much weaker.

Glad you're doing it right the first time btw.

Don't do the boring until you have the actual piston set first, you never know, you might find a smokin' deal on some 1070's and matched barrels like I did. Keep your eyes peeled on eBay for sure, I luckily got mine from fellow exup brother but...... well..... No, I won't get started.

$30 - $40 for a cam chain? I paid less than $20 shipped for a Tsubaki on eBay. Couldn't find the guy right now, but just keep on doing an "FZR chain" search on eBay and you'll find the same seller soon I imagine, I've seen his stuff for sale lots of times. Even so, you can find $20 Tsubaki chain right now too. Ain't much, but if you can save hear and there, it all adds up, not that I'd buy the cheap chinese crap though, just usually seems to be someone out there willing to slash prices on equal product. Sometimes there's also nothing wrong with the Chinese stuff too.

Yes, change the coils for sure, something from Accel or Nology, there's others too I'm sure. It's not terribly expensive to grab a full ignition solution from Nology, wires, plugs, and coils. Apparently their silver plugs are the best thing available, guess I'll see.

Can't say that I know how much to degree the cams, I thought it was 105 and 106 or something, but I can't say which value was for I/E cam. Also, if you change over to the YZF750 cams, who's profiles have a little longer duration and lift, things will be different also. so..... can't help you too much there until I get my own finished.

Apparently Ignitech sell great stuff and they're great guys. I wouldn't deal with them myself though unless I spoke chezk, there's a HUGE language barrier there unless they've hired an English speaking guy, it's very difficult to communicate with them.

I will be posting pics of everything, but only when it's all done and running 100% will I put them up, sorry man, it may be a while. I think I've got all the solutions for the FI issues sorted
Michael
Yes Yes I know, I said, I'm building a project YZF1070

Basement is done now, 850 finished and gone...
Gotta get the new siding up on the house.
Fixing the FZ1 up, cleaning up garage and then I might even begin

hotcam
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Post by hotcam »

Don't bore the cylinders until you have the actual pistons, my guy bored each hole to suit the exact measurements of each individual piston.

I used a genuine Yamaha cam chain which is a relabelled DID, but Tsubaki are also ok. I wouldn't use Just any brand though.

I am using an MSD MC3 ignition booster. Uses the stock ignition box and timings, just boosts the signal power/duration. Works well. When I go to pod filters / injection I will have room for the big MSD coils.

If you have a Vance Hines powerpak you can adjust advance and rpm limit. This will combine with MC3 if you want.

If you get ignitech you have to build all your settings fro
zero, but have full control and can use the same box to drive fuel injection. Not for the faint hearted though, a lot of work adjusting settings to get good running.
-------
'95 FZR1040 '09 FZ1-S
"And they had a machine, a dream of a machine, with wheels and gears and perfect in every respect, and they lived on it..." -Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad"

McFizzer
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Post by McFizzer »

thanks guys. Yeah I planned on getting the pistons first and then bring them to him with the cylinder head. Are you talking about taking .2-.5mm off the cylinder head? or the actual block of the motor? and would I run into any clearance issues with the valves by doing this? sounds like a simple way to squeeze even some more power out. Should be fine on 93 pump gas right? or would I have to add some sort of octane booster each time. I run 93 as much as I can but havent had any problems with regular either...

Im ordering my shim kit this month. I isn't hotcams actually one of the companies that make them for like 80 bones? I talked to my parts guy today as i was dropping off a tire and talking to him about plans for this winter. looked at me like I had 5 heads :roll:

Can anyone point me in a direction to somewhere I can buy a full gasket kit? I've seen them on later posts but when I click on the links it goes no where.... -_-

As far as porting and polishing the head, Can I just take my dremel and ease things out a little. I should have it put on a flow bench but im not trying to make a full fledged race bike just something to lay the smack down on some arrogant ass'es that think the FZR is a dinosaur....even if it is I <3 mine. Also do want to start getting into racing it.

I think my valve guides are re-usable as I really dont want to drop what 40 for each one.. engine runs nice, just need to do the seals and tranny but when in rome.... ;)

okay...back to doing me plugs =) gotta pick up my new rear tire with my Michelin 2ct on it soon :)

p.s

If you live in the states, check out jakewilson.com for tires. best I've seen around.
-Anthony-
::1992 FZR 1000::
Under construction at the moment.

Big Jon
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Post by Big Jon »

Ebay for gasket kits, they are not entirely complete, but then valve seals are included. I wouldn't touch porting or polishing without knowing what I was doing, it's not just a matter of reaming stuff out with a dremel, there's an art to the science behind it.
A lightened crank may equal some more HP, heavier cranks are good for torque, and the weights help smooth the engine vibes too.

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kiwi60
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Post by kiwi60 »

As far as porting and polishing the head, Can I just take my dremel and ease things out a little.
I did an experiment with porting a couple of years ago on my FZR750, including before and after dyno runs, and to tell you the truth I would bother getting too carried away with porting as there was no discernable difference after 40 plus hours of work.

All I did on my new 1040 EXUP head was a light going over the ports with 60grit on the dremel, just to even out the casting marks and provide a uniform surface, and the result is 142rwhp with std cams and carbs.

To sum up, to us mere mortals, Yamaha has dome a good job with the std port design, and a bit of light cleaning up is all that's required.
“I venture not to cross that finish line in a neat, tidy well ordered bundle, but to slide across it sideways in a shower of spark’s, leaking oil, hissing steam shouting ..Geronimo !!!!! “

2005 SV996R SOLD
1988 FZR750/1040 race bike SOLD
1988 FZR750/1000 - the next project CHANGING THE LOOK AGAIN, BUT STILL ON THE ROAD
Now he's got a KAWASAKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nope - Sold that one too
Dang - he’s got a Triumph now :o

sickle44
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Post by sickle44 »

60 Grit Graham, are you sure about that, or was that supposed to be 600grit? ***shrug***

RE: the back to back dyno runs with porting work, had you made any other changes to the machine Graham

Gasket kits Tony, Not to sure I'd actually pick up an "everything's in the bag gasket kit, and would steer very clear of anything that said Vesrah on it. To be honest, they really don't exist for this machine anymore as there's always something not included from one kit to the next. There may some old NOS cometic you can find but......

My apologies to those whom that may offend. Guess I'd piece one together best I could.
Last edited by sickle44 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael
Yes Yes I know, I said, I'm building a project YZF1070

Basement is done now, 850 finished and gone...
Gotta get the new siding up on the house.
Fixing the FZ1 up, cleaning up garage and then I might even begin

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kiwi60
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Post by kiwi60 »

60 Grit Graham, are you sure about that, or was that supposed to be 600grit? ***shrug***
Yes 100% sure, using a smooth finish is an easy trap to fall into as too smooth a finish will actually cause the incoming fuel mixture to form droplets in the intake, lessening the effectiveness of the industion.

A 60grit (remember were talking about a sanding roll on a dremel running at around 20,000rpm) will results in a surface that actually promotes flow, a bit like the raised semi-circular domes on a racing yachts hull.

If you have a look at this link, about half way down the page, it's explained quite well:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/homework.htm
RE: the back to back dyno runs with porting work, had you made any other changes to the machine Graham
Absolutley none: same pipe, cams, jetting, fuel etc etc. I did it as an experiment to see if velocity porting would give any power advantage on the 5 valve heads, and at the end of the day there was no advantage in doing it, which lead me to the conclusion that Yamaha had done a better job on the head than I could so in future I would pretty much leave that area alone and concentrate on areas that would yeild results like removing the alternator, starter motor, starter clutch and chain, and whacking in bigger high compression pistons.

Remember though, I've kept the std cams and a normally ported & modified head may well give better results with more lift or longer duration - I just wanted to build a grunty, reliable hot street motor for the race bike that I shouldn't have to do too much work to for a few years (and it goes like stink!!!!!!!).

However, polishing the exhaust ports to a mirror finish WILL give a benifit in getting the gas out quicker - but I'll leave that for when duke22 starts getting past me (if I stay on that long :oops: )
“I venture not to cross that finish line in a neat, tidy well ordered bundle, but to slide across it sideways in a shower of spark’s, leaking oil, hissing steam shouting ..Geronimo !!!!! “

2005 SV996R SOLD
1988 FZR750/1040 race bike SOLD
1988 FZR750/1000 - the next project CHANGING THE LOOK AGAIN, BUT STILL ON THE ROAD
Now he's got a KAWASAKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nope - Sold that one too
Dang - he’s got a Triumph now :o

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