Canuck races!

[ZoltanP]

my recent invited ride on a k3 750 on a drying track had the owner putting on his treaded rideday tyres. I thought they'd be ok, but then the rear came around at just over 200 kph on the kink on the main strtaight... you can guess the rest.
so i too would recommend 'real' racing tyres, unless you were specifically 'testing' these first by your self, not next to your mates who are just as likely to get knocked over if you crash on so-so tyres.

Having said that, i read with interest in the latest oz m/c trader mag that ken wootoon tested their 18" sports tyres on his RC30 and found them quite good at phillip island. so wonders will never cease. hey let us know how you go with those will you please?

[Big Jon]

It was a track evening with 8 of us in our session, and it was specifically to decide if the tires were track worthy. As no one around here has info for pressures I'm stumbling around blind hunting for the right setup. If I can find it great, if I can't, they become play tires where I practice throttle control and sliding. Our track is short and tight, with altered gearing (-1ft +3Rr) I only hit 3rd for a bit on the short straight, so High speed get offs are rare.

[spook]

I did a bit of a Google search regarding the shinkos (stinko's), and most the forum entries were negative, a few crashes, most agreed they were crap

The main criticism is of the profile disparity between front and rear (rear being quite flat) causing strange unpredictable steering. The drag racers love them, mainly because they are cheap and suited to a straight line.

Most people also blacked out the shinko on the side, which really says everything... but that didn't stop them running off or going over the bars.

All I'm saying is be careful. If they where suited to closed curcuit work, everyone would be using them

[Big Jon]

Rear profile is very flat, but the R008 slick is not what they use for drag racing as they usually require dot meaning they need the treaded tire. The flat profile is what is giving me side grip issues for sure and I'm not sure what I can do to work with it. I too did a lot of looking online and almost every negative report came from someone who hadn't ridden them, which in my opinion is useless info, that's why I wanted to try them, to get real info.

[spook]

Hey Big Jon, praise to you for being interested enough to do some experimenting/research, and your doing it with your eyes open and a decent skill set. I'm actually looking forward to your report

[Big Jon]

Eyes wide open. I was curious what a $230 set of tires would be like compared to the $400 favourites. Eyes got really wide open a few corners! But I'm reluctant to write them off after just one evening. I'll keep playing with tire pressures and see what I can do, but they won't be under the bike for the actual races, I'd rather not get lapped twice in one session (as happened last night), once is enough for me. Rumour has it that an american team went endurance racing with them, but I can't find anything to confirm that yet, they'd be a great info resource.

[spook]

Why don't you email Shonko and tell em what you are doing, and ask for any data they might have, they might even sponsor you as a development rider... Not something I would want though, as tyres are expensive to dispose of

You might improve the profile by inflating them to 55 psi

[ZoltanP]

if they make them, get a rear that's wider than what your wheel is specced for, and as it pulls around onto the tyre and round out more. this is usually a problem when the wrong tyres are used, but it might be a good solution for you. You should be asking the manufacturer for tyre pressures hot, they should know. After all, there weems to be 2 main categories of tyres now; one like old school using the usual 26-30 psi pressures, and the ones using lower pressures like the pirellis we raced on, using 24 psi warm. it was a mind trick to ride on them and learn to trust them, as my mind is used to expecting failure at such low pressures, but hey, that's what the manufacturers recommend..

[Big Jon]

I did e-mail them and they weren't much help, maybe that's a sign. My buddy proposed the high pressure idea last night too, hmm, and he rides a TL too... conspiracy? I thought about the 24psi pirellis but was nearly out of time to try it, so went with the drastic jump to 35 to feel if that was the right or wrong way. They do make a 190 that would pinch more on my 5.5 rear rim, but that means buying another one, something I may not do.

[JasonL]

Hey Zoltan,

You're saying get a tyre that's wider for the rim its specced for but this contradicts what you advised Rob Francis at oran pasrk when he had a 120 front on a 110 rim...are you saying differrent requirements front to rear, or just talking about these Shinkos in particular??

Since the widest part of a tyre is the side, not when its upright (or should be), it does look like the Shinkos simply don't put enough down due to their profile and I'm sure their construction has a lot to do with it too, plus a poor compound. I think we tend to overtyre our bikes in general relative to rim size - I'v run a 165 on a 5.5 and it was fine. I've also run the same tyre on 4.5, 4.75 and 5" rims! Plus a 180 on a 5" and that was way too big.....I think a 180 is really best suited to a 6" rim even over a 5.5.

[Big Jon]

The tire is flat enough across the face the a 190 would pinch a little more and give more side contact on my 5.5 rim, in theory, as it is it looks like a mushroom. The catch is; slightly upright and the thing hooks up hard, giving me hope that the compund is good. So I hope some of the info I'm getting from a guy who's been racing them all summer (shinko dist. put us in touch as they had no answers) can give me something to start with or aim for.

[spook]

(shinko dist. put us in touch as they had no answers)

That's a bit sad. A distributer selling tyres for very specific purpose, but have no knowledge of product...

Back in the good old days many races were won in karting with over inflated slicks. This was when wets were not allowed. We pumped them up to 60 psi so to round the tyres.... to such an extent that a narrow contact patch was created, and hence lifting most of the slick out of the water, avoiding aquaplaning. Up to 2 seconds a lap quicker than the opposition, and a club championship in hand.

Perhaps the 190 shonko rear would be better suited to a narrower rim, but to me you are wasting time and money trying to turn shit into clay...lol. Don't go getting yourself hurt B.J.

[Big Jon]

Don't go getting yourself hurt B.J.

I'm not willing to do that over $200, rest assured. But it's worth playing around with just to see. I agree, all you get when you polish a turd is a shiny turd! But with enough heat and pressure you never know, I may get diamonds!!

[ZoltanP]

You're saying get a tyre that's wider for the rim its specced for but this contradicts what you advised Rob Francis at oran pasrk when he had a 120 front on a 110 rim...are you saying differrent requirements front to rear, or just talking about these Shinkos in particular?? Since the widest part of a tyre is the side, not when its upright (or should be), it does look like the Shinkos simply don't put enough down due to their profile and I'm sure their construction has a lot to do with it too, plus a poor compound. I think we tend to overtyre our bikes in general relative to rim size - I'v run a 165 on a 5.5 and it was fine. I've also run the same tyre on 4.5, 4.75 and 5" rims! Plus a 180 on a 5" and that was way too big.....I think a 180 is really best suited to a 6" rim even over a 5.5.

yeah i know it goes against the grain, but this chap has the exact opposite problem from what ken and Rob had. Their tyres were overcurved, this chap's is undercurved. It may or may not work, you'd have to buy the tyre and do it, possibly not finding that the flatish construction does or does not allow for any descent rounding. I presonally wouldn't spend the money, though I'd give it a try if their disctibutor supplied tyres for free as a test, and even then it'd be dedicated sessions for me to get the feel.

I guess someone has to try new stuff, but the question is can you afford to fix the crash damage the testing is likely to cause??? and the time off work??

That's why factories emply testers and engineers and testing equipment and hospital stays and bike repairs... It's a big ask.


z

[Big Jon]

They'll be an ok practice tire for working on throttle control. Not entirely confidence inspiring, they were better in the cooler weather (13 and windy). The rear slides were predictable and left side was fine, our track is predominantly left turns so no surprise there was no confidence in the right handers, not even enough to touch knee. After pushing (and sliding) as hard as I felt I could I could only manage high 1:11's with a couple sessions on them. First session out with the previous race weekends Bridgestones saw me in the mid 1:09's. That's enough evidence for me, without taking into account the huge increase in comfort level. Funny enough they're the ones I almost high sided myself into next week on, but that was me not the tires

[ZoltanP]

After pushing (and sliding) as hard as I felt I could I could only manage high 1:11's with a couple sessions on them. First session out with the previous race weekends Bridgestones saw me in the mid 1:09's. That's enough evidence for me

that's evidence based science mate!

[Big Jon]

That's all I was looking for. The unmeasurable factor was the comfort and confidence, it was worth a lot too.

[ZoltanP]

yeah, i wasn't being sarcastic! if you can't confidently pull similar laptimes to a 'better' tyre, than that's evidential - using a stopwatch and your confidence meter..

[Big Jon]

No sarcasm detected. The nice thing is, the timing system is more consistent than the "here's my stopwatch, see what my laptimes are" method too.

[Big Jon]

Round one is in the books and I've been playing with yet another tire that's new enough there isn't a lot of info. Nope, not another shinko, they stayed in the garage. And the biggest improvement is that there is an ex Canadian top level racer that is the trackside support, and he's actually used these tires before. I've never run Pirelli's before this year, and most guys aren't out racing on their Superbike Pro (Red Stripe) tires, but hot damn, I think I could like these tires a lot. I've used older michelin H2/M2/S2 dot race tires and loved the absolute stick when they're hot, as well as the really pointy profile quickened up the steering on a bike that was never known to be, well, quick. Big downside for a guy not running tire warmers was the huge lack of traction for the first 2 laps before they actually warmed up and then decided to stick. The next tires run were bridgestones' 002 race dot's and they were much quicker to warm up, slightly rounder for a little less nervousness upright, but they tended to get a little greasy when really pushed on a hot day, and more so when they were completely worn out (not really their fault). These Pirelli's are quite round in comparison, which so far has been very good for confidence levels, they warm up within a couple corners, and are wearing slower than the ST tires I have on my street machine, all for a couple bucks less than the full out DOT's. The only downside I can possibly forsee is the fact that if the track is at all wet, my day is done on these slicks.

This is the rear at the end of it's first trackday:


This is the same tire after the end of the first race weekend, several practice sessions, and three race events (including a re-start race that almost had to be re-started again because of the same riders manouvers, see video below)



Aforementioned video, and yes that's a girl on an SV beating me, so just keep it to yourselves!