Windows Vista

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silver
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Post by silver »

So I went with an AMD 64 x2 dual core and 3GB of RAM. :?

Just thought I'd let everyone know that SP1 should be available very shortly. I'm thinking Monday It just posted to MSDN earlier today. I'm still running it as a dual-boot. Doggone thing takes a ton of RAM to run. I don't have _any_ significant apps installed and it's running at 1.8GB in the buffer.

EDIT : Here's a good deal on some top level DDR-II memory. 4GB and it's very tight stuff for $94 after rebate.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145194

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Post by genesis_rider »

nice silver! u play around with the amd version of the quad core's yet? im thinkin of goin quad and have always been an amd person...

and u think the sp1 willl address system resource allocation in vista?? it is rediculous on idle resource useage...
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silver
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Post by silver »

Long overdue update. I still have a full working copy of Vista in my backup however I've finally found Micrsoft gold and it's called 'Server 2008'. Yes, I'm running a server OS on my workstation ! Here's a link to someones post on using the same OS on a laptop.

http://blogs.sqlxml.org/bryantlikes/arc ... aptop.aspx

Think Vista without a lot of junk. Reminds me of Windows 2000 in fact.

As to quad-cores, no, I'll be using my AMD 4600+ x2 dual-core for at least another year. Here's my systems specs :

AMD 4600+ x2 processor
Asus M2N-E motherboard
Visiontek Radeon 3870 w/512MB DDR4 memory
8GB DDR-II RAM
X-Fi Sound Blaster PCI-E audio card
M-Audio 2496 Delta audio (capture) card
5 internal hard drives totaling 1320GB
Pioneer DVD + R/W
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straygator
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Post by straygator »

Hey I'm back and thanks for the replies after my FEB 13 post ... it wasn't a harddrive or battery, I fried a motherboard. Because of all my software is XP that what I tried to replace my Toshiba with. Not too easy to buy a new machine with XP, so I had Alienware but together an Area 51 with what I thought I need/afford. Came with wrong processor,memory and harddrive speed. As I'm a truck driver I could not be in a place and time when whey could so I'm sending it back ... after 2 months of use. I'm glad because I didn't like it or any othe machines that I've borrowed. I got my old machine back ( they said it would be $150 because they went in and found the problem, but was still in pieces so I got it back for free) and want to fix it. The only other laptop I'd even consider now is the Macbook Pro 17", but loaded with what I want is 4 grand !!! So most any cost to fix my Toshiba is a bargin. It's old with an Nvida 5200 64MB graphics card that I would really like to upgrade. Can I get a new motherboard for this machine with a better stuff? And how does one evaluate stuff? The Macbook Pro with Nvida 8600 graphics was called "dated" by one review that was 6 months old. And speaking of evaluations anybody care to comment about the LED backlight for dispays. Thanks for any help, I've been reading 3-4 books/week and think I'll go blind soon without another laptop!!!

Paul

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wow

Post by bigjnfla »

all you poor souls comparing those operating systems.. :idea: silly rabbits pc's are for kids.. :idea: havent used one of those in years.now you want a fine operating system and a crash proof computer then you would need a MAC or apple as some refer to them been using them for years now and youll never get me to go back
its going where i dont know but its going

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ExupElvis
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Post by ExupElvis »

straygator wrote:The only other laptop I'd even consider now is the Macbook Pro 17", but loaded with what I want is 4 grand !!!
I'm still running Slackware 11.0 on my everyday workhorse desktop.
Software costs so far are........................0.
Configuration time is another thing altogether though.
But it's been stable for a looooooong time now, It doesn't need reboots for adding stuff, never forgets where the internet is, has never randomly changed the desktop settings on me, and I worry none about virus's.
Try out Ubuntu 'gator, same price and really easy to run now.
Oh, and if you don't want the Alienware notebook, I do!
Fairings just get in the way of carb tuning

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Re: wow

Post by haunter »

bigjnfla wrote:all you poor souls comparing those operating systems.. :idea: silly rabbits pc's are for kids.. :idea: havent used one of those in years.now you want a fine operating system and a crash proof computer then you would need a MAC or apple as some refer to them been using them for years now and youll never get me to go back
<== plays games NOT called WOW, so a mac is not for me

the buy in is pretty crazy still too.


my 700 dollar home built is doing just fine for me, and that included a copy of vista business x64 and a core 2 duo, 4gb of ram

I guess its more like 900 though since I bought a new ATI card this summer :cool
88 FZR 1000 - SuperTrap, K&N, FP kit - sold
90 FZR 1000 - 1040, Ohlins, 91 USD's...some other stuff - sold

93 FZR 600 - rat/cafe/POS/Trackbike Project
03 SV1000S - bye bye
06 R6 50th Anniversary - slip on, PCIII, race rails

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FZRDude
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Re: wow

Post by FZRDude »

haunter wrote:
bigjnfla wrote:all you poor souls comparing those operating systems.. :idea: silly rabbits pc's are for kids.. :idea: havent used one of those in years.now you want a fine operating system and a crash proof computer then you would need a MAC or apple as some refer to them been using them for years now and youll never get me to go back
<== plays games NOT called WOW, so a mac is not for me

the buy in is pretty crazy still too.


my 700 dollar home built is doing just fine for me, and that included a copy of vista business x64 and a core 2 duo, 4gb of ram

I guess its more like 900 though since I bought a new ATI card this summer :cool
I'm with you Doug. Home Built. I can't see paying $40 for a game I have to pay monthly to play..... Now EVE-Online may be worth looking into being that the game itself is free.
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haunter
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Post by haunter »

i have a bunch of friends that play

but I dont have time to pay 10-15 a MONTH to play for a few hours


hell I havent beaten GTA4 yet and it came out in like may
88 FZR 1000 - SuperTrap, K&N, FP kit - sold
90 FZR 1000 - 1040, Ohlins, 91 USD's...some other stuff - sold

93 FZR 600 - rat/cafe/POS/Trackbike Project
03 SV1000S - bye bye
06 R6 50th Anniversary - slip on, PCIII, race rails

silver
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Post by silver »

My son likes MotoGP III. :banana

Edit : Which runs great on his Windows 2000 system.
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Post by nynoah »

I am a full blown Ubuntu user. I left the windows world behind a few years ago. I was not a computer nerd when I started. Have become a little of one now.

I would suggest everyone try Ubuntu or some other Linux distribution. It runs WAY faster and better than Vista. If I had to pay for all the programs I have I would be well into 8 grand in the windows world. I have a full on studio recording setup. I have CAD programs for parts. I have 5 different torrent programs, tons of media players (songbird is the bomb).

Linux is always evolving and getting better. Companies are now making drivers for it because people are leaving windows in droves over the Vista mess. HP even has a driver you can download off their sight with install instructions.

I suggest people try Ubuntu
www.ubuntu.
Tons of Ubuntu info here
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/

or Open SUSE 11
http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org

or Ultimate Edition (ubuntu with TONS of programs)
http://ultimateedition.info/


It takes some getting use to. It is NOT windows so you need to be ready for that. But it is great once you get use to it. I run the Gnome interface. But people who are windows users tend to like the look of KDE over Gnome.

I am sure this is all Greek. But really, you can experiment with doing a dual boot on a machine. There are ways to put Linux on a pen drive (open suse is good for that) so you can take it with you and use any computer as yours. I have used the live disks of Linux to pull of files from locked up windows computers.

Just remember Linux was designed by hackers........so it very different from the virus world of windows.

silver
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Post by silver »

Having used Red Hat, Mandrake, Ubuntu and numerous other distros since 1996, I find that the development and hardware support in Linux pales significantly even in comparison to Windows 2000 Pro much less XP and Vista. There's much to be said for Microsoft's solid API libraries which have allowed developers to build applications and utilities that are consistent and "fit" the OS. This hasn't been the case with Linux and even Linux Standard Base hasn't met with much success.

For other examples of where Microsoft still excels, we just have to look at the incredible hurtles to configure multiple monitors or IDE/SATA RAID controllers under Linux. Try setting up a Epson Perfection 4490 PHOTO scanner or a Sound Blaster X-Fi sound card and you will likely learn the true meaning of the term frustration. Believe me, I have !

Regarding system speed, most of the time when people find that Windows is slow, it's caused by malware, bloatware (such as Norton Internet Security), poor drivers or just simply poor system configuration. In a test that I performed about 5 years ago, I found that in every comparable application and use, Windows was faster given that the system was setup correctly. The one area that Linux did excel in was load management which was significantly better than either Win2K Por or XP Pro. As far as application availablilty, while there are some CAD applications like NX and Maya, do you honestly believe that they compare well to AutoCAD or Inventor running under Windows ? And while I'm attempting to compare apples to apples, how about comparing The GIMP to Photoshop or Paint.NET ? And what would we compare Evolution to ? It's consistently touted as a replacement for Microsoft's Outlook however that is completely laughable. Anyone who actually uses Outlook 2003/2007 can point out the numerous features missing in Evolution. And while you like Songbird, I much prefer Foobar 2000 which is a program that was designed from the ground up for ripping and playing audio rather than taking Firefox and adapting it to be some bastardized version of iTunes.

Now I'm gonna be the first to admit there are a few things I don't care for in Vista so here they are :

1) Encrypting the audio subsystem (cowtow to DRM) and the subsequent 5~15% performance hit encurred for high definition audio playback.
2) File permission management.
3) Decentralized control panels (e.g. Personalization, network management tools and more)
4) Menuing system sux.
5) A 500MB+ registry ? That seems just a tad too large.

But like I said , it's still vastly superior in every way to Linux.
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Post by ExupElvis »

I learn things when you post Silver - thanx for what I consider an fair and unbiased review here.
I have one pick, (and only one).................
silver wrote:But like I said , it's still vastly superior in every way to Linux.
Cost.
If I could have afforded all the stuff I wanted for XP I would never have ventured into Linux.
But I simply couldn't.
And the Linux distro's really are improving. A lot. The libraries are a mess (still) and they shouldn't be - but I'm not to the developer level yet so I limp along.
I wonder if you've had a chance to check out the new 7 beta from MS?
I know some people who are working with it now, not much feedback yet though.
All this stuff is still new enough where changes seem to be the norm - and probably will be for some time to come......
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haunter
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Post by haunter »

I can't wait to get a paw on the 7 beta
88 FZR 1000 - SuperTrap, K&N, FP kit - sold
90 FZR 1000 - 1040, Ohlins, 91 USD's...some other stuff - sold

93 FZR 600 - rat/cafe/POS/Trackbike Project
03 SV1000S - bye bye
06 R6 50th Anniversary - slip on, PCIII, race rails

silver
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Post by silver »

ExupElvis wrote:I learn things when you post Silver - thanx for what I consider an fair and unbiased review here.
Thanks ! I've tried to be as objective as possible as I work in the field. I really don't like the way that Microsoft has played their games over the years and I look at companies like Corel, Novel and more as having been bullied into complete submission. I tried to join the Linux train back in '96 and I still have my Red Hat Revolution t-shirt from the event in NYC. Unfortunately the "revolution" foundered and I was aghast while sitting in the audience and watching the Red Hat gurus reboot their system several times during an ill-prepared slide show as their notebook (a IBM) kept locking up. After several frustrating days of dual-booting, I jumped from RPM Hell into Caldera (now SCO) OpenLinux and then on to Mandrake, SuSE, and so many others I can't remember. I still maintain a login on Ubuntu's forum and will keep checking out each release however unless someone replaces SANE or I should afford a 4990, I'll be using Windows a lot longer.
ExupElvis wrote:I have one pick, (and only one).................Cost.
If I could have afforded all the stuff I wanted for XP I would never have ventured into Linux.
But I simply couldn't.
I find it difficult to justify the time needed to get things to work in Linux. I understand that there is a ton of free softwares available for it however what I usually find is that there are better applications written for Windows that I don't have to fiddle with for hours on end to get them to work. Of course that really depends on exactly what you're doing with a system in the first place. For me that means just a basic website design, graphic workstation that holds a whole lot of music and files. While I could use Thunderbird under Linux, I actually prefer Outlook 2007. Note the Eudora is working with Mozilla to release a version of Thunderbird that might work on Linux and I always liked Eudora. I never found a suitable replacement for Agent and while I'm sure there is some HTML editor following in the path of Macromedia's Homesite, I find Dreamweaver to be extremely comprehensive. In fact I'm really looking forward to CS4 which is shipping soon. Yes, I have some money tied up in softwares but when I can take about 50 snapshots of my children on Christmas morning, pull them into Roxio, add some music and generate a mp4 that I can push up to my site within minutes then I find the value well worth it.
ExupElvis wrote:And the Linux distro's really are improving. A lot. The libraries are a mess (still) and they shouldn't be - but I'm not to the developer level yet so I limp along.
Oh they've improved the overall GUI and capabilities however driver and peripheral support are still just plain ol' pathetic. I like Xubuntu and I plan on trying out Slackware again sometime but to be honest they're little more than mail-station capable. Ever try making a VCD ? Yep, it can be done but only after you add-in and tweak something for K3B.
ExupElvis wrote: I wonder if you've had a chance to check out the new 7 beta from MS?
Unfortunately our company seems to be banned from playing with 7. We were quite involved with XP however one of the techs evidently leaked a copy to the WWW and our beta testing group was significantly reduced, if we even have one at all !
ExupElvis wrote:All this stuff is still new enough where changes seem to be the norm - and probably will be for some time to come......
Change is good as long as it's done for the right reasons. Microsoft exists solely because Gates saw the opportunities that were emerging thanks to proprietary companies like IBM and Apple and he changed the dynamic. He made an OS that will run on inexpensive, industry standard hardware and with a common set of API's that afford a lot of backward compatibility. Heck, I've seen people running Word Perfect 5 (DOS) on Windows XP !
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Post by ExupElvis »

That is more than I can reply to in a quick shot silver..........a lot of collected thoughts there. ;)
On the VCD - I take that to mean Video CD? No I haven't tried that.
I just recently was able to find a command to burn a whole distribution ISO to a DVD disk in one shot, though a made I lot of coasters trying that with K3B.
It has been frustrating in a lot of ways, especially when those front end programs won't do what their GUI check boxes say they will.
K3B is certainly one of those examples.
But I've learned plenty by sorting through those frustrations also.
The make DVD command (for anyone curious) is growisofiles with a "Z" option and output directed straight to your burner device as "direct data" or "dd".
From the command line it works like magic with no front end involved, and I have become accustomed to watching progress by checking the active lights on the actual hardware items as opposed to watching a progress bar on a GUI.
I see that as the unfinished side of GNU software. Of course if I wanted to go through program associations of K3B's front end GUI and change it's associated scripts with the underlying working programs - like cdrecord, mkisofiles, womin etc. I would be able to - and with enough tweaking the front end could be made to work.
But out of the box it doesn't. And it is frustrating.
That's the real big upside of open software as I see it though. I'm allowed to get under the hood and change it to my liking (never mind that I have to) there's no "install wizard" - that's your job in GNU/Linux.
If a piece of software you want doesn't work right out of the box it's perfectly alright, in fact encouraged, that you change and tweak it so it works for you.
I am well aware most folks won't do that or even care, and if I'd had to learn enough bash scripting to make that happen on my own - I'd still be waiting for a bootable disk. However (with respect to the ISO example) a little google searching got me to the script I needed, and it actually is fun to copy and paste a piece of script code from a web page into a terminal, edit for your own hardware, hit return, and watch it burn a disk :)
What I do like about running Linux with respect to that (all of the above) is that all the tools I need to do those jobs are already in the software - they're just available from the command line only in many cases, and I have to find them - It's something I've gotten used to.
Yes it take takes time.
For anyone to to perform the Christmas morning picture/music composite upload you mentioned simply requires the end user to keep way too much in active memory.
And that does get me riled.
I expect the computer to do that most of the time for me.........and in that respect GNU/Linux software distro's just aren't there yet.
I think the the biggest reason I persist with all this is the UI/UE interface stuff though.
I love KDE. No, really.
I step up to a windows desktop and I can almost feel the heavy cumbersome pieces clunk and grind as it goes about it's work.
KDE is a surgeons scalpel, a fighter jet, a laser beam and an FZR on full boil all rolled into one. Need another work space? Three clicks and it's there - and fully functional.
M/S power tools won't do that - I've checked.
I cannot give that up...................... :poke
BTW I've taken to being strictly a slackware geek. I too have done distro hopping in hopes of finding an well automated functional Linux flavor.
Ubuntu is so close.
I still prefer the hands on approach of slackware myself, with the functionality of the new kernels it's getting hard to tell distro's apart anymore. Slack 12.1 pretty much just works.
Ok, that's enough from me for now.
:?
Fairings just get in the way of carb tuning

nynoah
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Post by nynoah »

I run straight linux. If I need a windows program, I run it under wine or Virtual box. If you have tried linux in the past, you have to try it today. 2 years ago, I would not have given it to a newbie. But today it is so refined that I convert people all the time. I have no problem with drivers. I am sure there are some problems out there. But for the most part most all the companies are finding it is to their advantage to put the drivers out there for the Linux people. 2 years ago, it was a problem. God did I have problems with my graphics...... But that was then.

Today I run Ubuntu with a TON of programs on it. I like the Gnome interface. I find KDE counter intuitive. I have windows XP in virtual box. I also have dream weaver running in Wine.

I don't use dream weaver too much. I have found that Kompozer can do most all things that dream weaver could do. I am not an expert so dream weaver was more of a head ache to me.

Really the only thing I wish Linux had that I miss was Itunes. That is only because it did a great job of organizing my files. I have a HUGE music collection. with WAY too many duplicates.

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Post by ExupElvis »

Right on nynoah, we need more converts here!
I'll have to try out some of that Dreamweaver/Komposer stuff me'self.
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Post by nynoah »

Really one of the biggest benefits of running windows under virtual box is that you still are running it under the Linux safety protocols. So viruses are not an issue. Its more safe for me to run this way. I have some good programs under Linux that tell me where I am getting all my pings. I got to tell you the world of internet hackers is very international. China is really hardcore trying to hit US ip's. Search out a program called Mobloquer and run that while you are torrenting. It is a form or peergarden.

Also I run Ubuntu over Slackware, Open Suse and others because I have the studio Ubuntu package. Its a home recording studio setup.

Part of the reason some programs are inferior is because things like open office are having to deal with some of the proprietary aspects of trying to cross platform match up with windows. Office does its best to defeat programs like Open Office. (fonts, saving in MS word doc.) But really Open Office can get around that if you know where to look for the correct add ons to Open Office.

Also if you want to try a great linux distro to mess around with, try Ultimate Edition. I have the Ultimate edition installer on my computer. I only have it because it pulls down some programs that are a pain to find in other locations. Its like Automatix was. Its a lazy way of doing things, but it works for me and I have not had problem with it yet.

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Post by haunter »

virus's are for n00bs

I ran my vista box for months with the firewall off and no AV

surfed loads of porn

no virus or spyware
88 FZR 1000 - SuperTrap, K&N, FP kit - sold
90 FZR 1000 - 1040, Ohlins, 91 USD's...some other stuff - sold

93 FZR 600 - rat/cafe/POS/Trackbike Project
03 SV1000S - bye bye
06 R6 50th Anniversary - slip on, PCIII, race rails

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