Anitfreeze?

Nbot · Post by **Nbot** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:24 pm

Hey, I saw a post back when about a brand of coolant that boosted horsepower as well...the only one I've found on google so far is "Liquid Performance Racing Coolant and Antifreeze" <a href="http://www.nacsracing.com/htmlcatalog/l ... . Does anyone suggest otherwise on brands or even against a "high performance" antifreeze? '94 Fizzer 1000

Post by **FZRDude** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:45 pm

<a href="http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redline3.htm" target="top">Water Wetter</a> Never used it, but heard good things and is required @ some race tracks. Coolant/Antifreeze is slippery is why. Tim <img src="http://img69.photobucket.com/albums/v20 ...   Has anyone seen my keys? Dir. of Entertainment<a href="http://eddieandthecruisersmc.com" target="top"> Eddie & the Cruisers</a> '94 FZR 1000

Nbot · Post by **Nbot** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:26 pm

Thanks Tim, I'm not racing right now so track requirements don't phase me, but it says can be added to regular glycol-based as well, so maybe I'll just do that?... '94 Fizzer 1000

Post by **FZRDude** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:38 pm

If I run into temp issuses I'll give it a try. Just never thought about it until the question came up. Tim <img src="http://img69.photobucket.com/albums/v20 ...   Has anyone seen my keys? Dir. of Entertainment<a href="http://eddieandthecruisersmc.com" target="top"> Eddie & the Cruisers</a> '94 FZR 1000

mintclint · Post by **mintclint** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:36 am

There is a product around called "Engine Ice". It's purple and from memory they claimed some horsepower increase. BTW - Why do they call it "anitfreeze"? It's not like as you run your engine it gets colder<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> . Seems "antiboil" would be a more appropriate name for it in motor applications<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/indifferent.gif ALT=":|"> [Repeat after me] "I don't know what I've been told..." "1000 posts is mighty bold..." "If John makes it I'll give in..." "If anyone does it it's gotta be Tim..."

Exupilot · Post by **Exupilot** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:21 am

Clint, the reason it's called antifreeze is it has a much lower freezing point which will stop it freezing in extreme cold whilst stationary. We do have this problem over here in the UK during winter and it's amazing how many cars end up with a split cylinder block due to the owners not having anti-freeze in the cooling system. The water freezes and expands splitting the blocks. The other purpose of the antifreeze is to stop oxydisation in the engine, pure water would bugger it all up, and the antifreeze gives better cooling properties than water alone. As for a performance gain, I've never heard of that one. Oil yes, antifreeze no but I have an open mind on this one, I suppose it is possible but I think the gains would be very small, probably not noticeable. Rob

Nbot · Post by **Nbot** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:57 am

Well my first link above Liquid Performance Racing Coolant and Antifreeze claimed horsepower advantages but didn't really back it up with anything. <a href="http://www.engineice.cc/faq.html">Engine Ice</a> didn't claim any hp advantage, but did have lots more info on product (which is AMA race legal).

F5 · Post by F5 » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:31 pm

At the end of the day the engine likes to run at a certain temp range. Overheating will lose power. On the other hand too cold is just as bad, makes consistent carburetion nigh on impossible & promotes engine wear. Most of these products claim all sorts of things to make theirs the one you take home. Penrite make a product that is not glycol so ok for tracks & mixes at 4:1 which means more water to help cooling. Water is good at this job, but needs a corrosion inhibitor. Water wetter reduces the surface tension reducing the barrier effect (water that stays stuck to surfaces creating an insulating barrier, it has to be cooled by passing water to then cool the metal). First off properly flush your system, pull the thermostat out & run the hose both ways. Maybe a system cleaner might be in order if it is ally friendly. Then your cooling system will be as good as it was originally intended.

Nbot · Post by **Nbot** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:28 pm

So I read on engine ice's site that "For any coolant and anytime you are changing coolant, we recommend a simple solution of distilled water and white distilled vinegar, both available at your local grocery store." <a href="http://www.engineice.cc/faq.html">clean ... . Anybody disagree? So F5 I was thinking of just sticking with regular 50/50 because of the same thing you said about having the bike run at the temp it was designed to, but possibly adding some water wetter to the mix b/c water wetter's site said can help w/ heat transfer....Bad idea? I'm thinking of this b/c of my other thread "overheating." Even if I get the current problem fixed the bike always seemed to get to 100'C in town (just now it's getting there in like 2-3 stoplights!!) '94 Fizzer 1000Edited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bexupbrotherhoo ... ot>Nbot</A> at: 7/12/04 3:39 pm

mintclint · Post by **mintclint** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:35 am

Just because you have snow pilot <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"> (it was a tounge in cheek comment, sheesh I hope that didn't affect my credibility<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> ) Nathan, I'm dubious about adding anything other than distilled water to coolant. Reasons being all those fantastic additives that look after your engine get wasted as soon as it's mixed with tap water trying to protect your engine from the nasties in it. I guess its hard to tell what the coolant will readily mix with and what it's anti corrosive properties will be neutralised by. Err on the side of caution, distilled water doesn't cost all that much <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> [Repeat after me] "I don't know what I've been told..." "1000 posts is mighty bold..." "If John makes it I'll give in..." "If anyone does it it's gotta be Tim..."

Nbot · Post by **Nbot** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:26 am

10-4 on the distilled water.....any tips on flushing the system? Agree with vinegar method above?

F5 · Post by F5 » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:23 pm

There should be commercially available flushers that are ally friendly. Maybe vinegar is the bomb, but I don’t know. I use water wetter in the racebike no probs ever. As far as distilled water can’t comment, I use tap water, but have been told in our area the water is neither particularly acidic or alkaline so it doesn’t matter.

Post by **jjs777** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:11 am

if ya really wanted to cool the motor...you could catch a used fan on ebay and mount it along with your stock single fan...then you would have lots of cooling capacity - or even better attch the 2nd fan to a on/off switch for desired operation - either way would be nice for in town driving whne seriously hot temps prevail -John

Post by **jjs777** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:20 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>and the antifreeze gives better cooling properties than water alone.<hr></blockquote> I disagree with your comment above exuppilot... I believe water has always been the more efficient liquid for removing heat compared to anti-freeze glycol mix. The only advantage glycol had in warm warmer climates was that it raised the boiling point of water for an expanded operating range of the cooling system of the engine/vehicle No time to google...but this is just what I learned in my travels and I might be misinformed. Okay...I'm getting critical here...but I like HP. If using glycol...it is harder to move than plain water. This means less HP loss with water vs glycol base. Yes this can be a significant factor...at least with engines using mechanical water pumps anyway. Thats why most race cars / high performance engines use electric fans and water pumps - this frees up hp. -JohnEdited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bexupbrotherhoo ... >jjs777</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://home.comcast.net/~john.stempien/ ... larger.gif" BORDER=0> at: 7/15/04 10:22 pm

Exupilot · Post by **Exupilot** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:50 am

The better coolant properties come because of the higher boiling point, if your coolant turns to steam it aint cooling anymore is it? Yes race cars do use electric pumps, yes it does free off a couple of HP, also they run power steering off electric pumps too, (if fitted) to reduce the drain. The only problem I see for doing this on the bikes is space. I have used the idea of a switch on the cooling fan before to overide the temp switch on the rad, did it on a ZZR I owned, it does make a difference to keep the fan in and hold the temp down, the only problem I had was forgetting to turn it off again, but it does no damage. Just piggy back the couple of wires on the temp. sender upto a switch and away you go. Rob

Post by **FZRDude** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:37 am

I did the same thing on my FZ. Had a switch mounted on the clocks. Tim <img src="http://img69.photobucket.com/albums/v20 ...   Has anyone seen my keys? Dir. of Entertainment<a href="http://eddieandthecruisersmc.com" target="top"> Eddie & the Cruisers</a> '94 FZR 1000

Post by **jjs777** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:36 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>if your coolant turns to steam it aint cooling anymore is it<hr></blockquote> Yes but plain water boiling point 212 degrees F right? But that is considerably higher when running at 15-16lbs of presssure? So given a thermostat rating of 160-225 the water never reaches boiling point correct? -John

Post by **FZRDude** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:31 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>So given a thermostat rating of 160-225 the water never reaches boiling point correct?<hr></blockquote> You now have to take into account quantity of water(size of cooling system), speed at which it is flowing, size and surface area of radiator, construction of the radiator shape and make-up(metal used), and whether or not there is air flow (@ speed or with fan). Sorry to turn this technical. But a lot of this is very cloudy in my memory. Tim <img src="http://img69.photobucket.com/albums/v20 ...   Has anyone seen my keys? Dir. of Entertainment<a href="http://eddieandthecruisersmc.com" target="top"> Eddie & the Cruisers</a> '94 FZR 1000

Post by **jjs777** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:07 am

Normally water boils at 212°F. However, for every pound of pressure increase, the boiling point goes up 3°F. Typical radiator cap pressure is 12 to 16 psi. This raises the boiling point of the engine coolant to about 250°F to 260°F. Many surfaces inside the water jackets can be above 212°F. So assuming the above statement taken from popular mechanics - I'm gonna wager that the bike cooling system was over designed enough to NEVER allow the bike temp to reach 250-260. So in this case I would assume water would be a great choice for riding except in freezing conditions. The aforementioned facts in other posts about distilled water are valid - to eliminate hard contaminants in the water - also the fact that water wetters (the ones I've seen) mentioned they would work best in a plain water system. I did assume the radiator cap rating on the fzr is 12-16 lbs....but I did not look closely at mine. -JohnEdited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bexupbrotherhoo ... >jjs777</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://home.comcast.net/~john.stempien/ ... larger.gif" BORDER=0> at: 7/18/04 12:08 am

Nbot · Post by **Nbot** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:04 pm

My '94 fizzer cap is 13.5-18 lbs (I'm pretty sure)

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