Barry Sheene race 2 & 3

sbutler · Post by **sbutler** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:35 am

Well got to the track & it was wet. We were the second race out so things were a bit dodgie.
Anyway because of the race 1 drama I had to start dead last on the grid.

Race 2::Lights went out & away we went! I was going pretty steady & worked my way up to 17th by lap 1. Then while comming down the straight at full noise my bloddy zipper on my suit unzipped. I thought will I keep going & risk it, Or pull into the pits. With the track still pretty damp & being on slicks I came in. Gabbed a guy in pit lane to fix it & went back out.
Did a half a lap & the race was red flagged. The Creek must hate me??
So I was classed as a finisher. But again start from the back of the grid. Not happy Jan.

Race 2 results
1 69 PAUL GRANT-MITCHELL NSW Kawasaki 750 B PF1 4 7:39.4580 4 1:51.6780
2 7 AARON MORRIS (NSW) Suzuki 750 C PF1 4 7:40.3610 4 1:50.6190*
3 77 GRAEME GREAVES (QLD) Ducati 916 D PF1 4 7:50.9280 3 1:55.4190
4 84 CHADD SLADE (NSW) Honda 900 C PF1 4 7:55.3460 4 1:52.8770
5 89 MICHAEL COOK (NSW) CASTLE HILL MOTORCYCLES Suzuki 1000 C PF1 4 7:59.2100 4 1:52.6580
6 30 BRETT CLARK (NSW) RB RACING Honda 900 A PF1 4 7:59.7490 4 1:56.2540
7 46 RICK KWOK (NSW) Yamaha 250 D PF2 4 8:02.6970 4 1:55.5210
8 37 STUART LOMAX (NSW) Yamaha 750 D PF1 4 8:05.9050 4 1:55.3210
9 12 RICHARD EASTON (NSW) BIKE WRECK Yamaha 750 B PF1 4 8:06.4950 4 1:56.2690
10 55 MATTHEW HANNA (NSW) Kawasaki 600 D PF2 4 8:07.3920 4 1:56.3790
11 971 JAMIE SMITH (SA) Suzuki 750 C NF1 4 8:08.4280 4 1:54.7950
12 97 STEPHEN WARD (NSW) Yamaha 250 1 PF2 4 8:09.4850 4 1:57.4830
13 96 NEIL CROCKFORD (NSW) Yamaha 750 C PF1 4 8:09.5300 4 1:56.6070
14 113 BRAD PHELAN (QLD) Honda 900 D PF1 4 8:10.3480 4 2:00.7250
15 33 WAYNE GOW (NSW) Yamaha 250 1 PF2 4 8:10.8980 4 1:57.4920
16 38 JASON LIGHT (NSW) Honda 750 C NF1 4 8:13.9550 3 1:57.3340
17 13 SCOTT PUSEY (NSW) Kawasaki 750 D PF1 4 8:14.5930 3 1:58.8500
18 43 DAVID GILYEAT (NSW) Kawasaki 750 D PF1 4 8:15.1580 4 2:00.1730
19 9 TREVOR LUSBY (NSW) Honda 140 A NF2 4 8:16.7910 3 1:57.5460
20 72 IVAN HOEY (NSW) BIKE WRECK Yamaha 750 D PF1 4 8:20.6760 4 1:59.5470
21 44 STEVEN GREEN (NSW) Kawasaki 600 D PF2 4 8:20.7700 4 1:54.8700
22 57 STUART ELLIS (NSW) Suzuki 750 D NF1 4 8:22.1990 4 2:00.0920
23 50 GLENN HINDLE (NSW) Honda 250 1 PF2 4 8:25.2750 3 1:58.6210
24 8 PETER WALDRON (NSW) Kawasaki 600 D PF2 4 8:34.7450 4 2:01.6730
25 51 GARRY SEE (NSW) Yamaha 250 D PF2 4 8:39.4960 3 2:02.1320
26 91 RODGER GREEN (NSW) Suzuki 750 D NF1 4 8:40.0310 4 2:04.5870
27 78 SIMON HILLS (NSW) Suzuki 750 C NF1 4 8:40.5720 4 2:00.0410
28 10 CRAIG RALLS (NSW) Honda 750 C NF1 4 8:44.6260 4 2:03.8800
29 56 ROLF ROTZLER (NSW) Suzuki 750 D NF1 4 8:44.9370 4 2:03.8380
30 42 SIMON GENEV (NSW) Yamaha 1000 2 PF1 4 8:47.7780 4 2:02.1580
31 29 KIRK OSGOOD (NSW) Suzuki 750 D PF1 4 8:54.6900 3 2:08.2280
32 5 ROBERT SEILER (NSW) Kawasaki 900 D NF1 4 8:57.6040 3 2:07.6780
33 2 KEN LINDSAY (NSW) Honda 900 1 PF1 4 8:59.2660 4 2:10.8180
34 26 ROB FRANCIS (NSW) Honda 750 C NF1 4 8:59.8150 3 2:08.0700
35 47 DOUG DOYLE (QLD) Kawasaki 750 D PF1 4 8:59.8830 3 2:07.5600
36 20 STEVE BUTLER (NSW) MOTOTECH Yamaha 1000 C PF1 3 9:19.3610 1 2:23.5520
DNF 71 GREG TORY (NSW) Suzuki 750 D PF1 4 8:15.3870 3 1:58.3720
DNF 124 MICK JOHNSTON (NSW) NORTH COAST V TWINS Bimota 900 A NF1 2 4:03.5560 2 1:56.6340
DNF 24 TIM WILKINS (NSW) Kawasaki 600 D PF2 2 4:44.3620 2 2:17.9140
DNS 3 PETER HINTON (NSW) Yamaha 1000 A PF1
DNS 4 MARTIN KRAAYMAAT (NSW) Suzuki 750 2 NF1
DNS 9 GRANT HAY (NSW) Yamaha 500 A PF1
DNS 33 Bill Newton (NSW) RS 600 C NF2
DNS 36 MURRAY CLARK (NSW) BIKE WRECK Suzuki 1100 A NF1
DNS 49 SCOTT A RINALDIS (QLD) Ducati 944 D PF1
DNS 53 BRIAN COLES (NSW) Yamaha 250 2 NF2
DNS 59 GARRY BRIGGS (NSW) Kawasaki 600 1 PF2
DNS 62 ROBERT JOHNSON (NSW) Suzuki 750 1 NF1
DNS 73 PETER FRYER (NSW) Yamaha 420 C NF2
DNS 82 HARRY AHOLA (NSW) Honda 250 D PF2
DNS 95 JOHN HEWITT (NSW) Yamaha 250 1 PF2

Race 3:: I thought here we go again, what will happen this time?
Started dead last,[Again] Got another blinder of a start & finished 6th!! I rode the wheels of the old clunker, & it was charging along very well.
On the last half a lap it dropped onto 3 cylinders again!!! So that was the best I could do.

Race 3
1 7 AARON MORRIS (NSW) Suzuki 750 C PF1 7 12:29.7990 2 1:43.9480*
2 77 GRAEME GREAVES (QLD) Ducati 916 D PF1 7 12:36.0540 7 1:46.3200
3 84 CHADD SLADE (NSW) Honda 900 C PF1 7 12:36.1270 7 1:46.3150
4 12 RICHARD EASTON (NSW) BIKE WRECK Yamaha 750 B PF1 7 12:36.8070 3 1:46.5460
5 37 STUART LOMAX (NSW) Yamaha 750 D PF1 7 12:48.4260 6 1:46.2090
6 20 STEVE BUTLER (NSW) MOTOTECH Yamaha 1000 C PF1 7 13:04.1130 4 1:50.0060
7 113 BRAD PHELAN (QLD) Honda 900 D PF1 7 13:05.4780 7 1:50.3480
8 96 NEIL CROCKFORD (NSW) Yamaha 750 C PF1 7 13:05.5140 4 1:50.0180
9 43 DAVID GILYEAT (NSW) Kawasaki 750 D PF1 7 13:06.9650 7 1:50.1490
10 89 MICHAEL COOK (NSW) CASTLE HILL MOTORCYCLES Suzuki 1000 C PF1 7 13:10.3530 3 1:49.9410
11 13 SCOTT PUSEY (NSW) Kawasaki 750 D PF1 7 13:46.1810 6 1:54.9150
12 47 DOUG DOYLE (QLD) Kawasaki 750 D PF1 7 14:06.7610 7 1:57.3490
13 29 KIRK OSGOOD (NSW) Suzuki 750 D PF1 7 14:08.5830 7 1:57.9650
14 42 SIMON GENEV (NSW) Yamaha 1000 2 PF1 6 12:32.5440 4 2:03.0430
DNF 30 BRETT CLARK (NSW) RB RACING Honda 900 A PF1 2 3:42.4070 1 1:49.4670
DNF 69 PAUL GRANT-MITCHELL NSW Kawasaki 750 B PF1 2 3:42.8160 1 1:48.2630
DNF 72 IVAN HOEY (NSW) BIKE WRECK Yamaha 750 D PF1
DNS 2 KEN LINDSAY (NSW) Honda 900 1 PF1
DNS 3 PETER HINTON (NSW) Yamaha 1000 A PF1
DNS 9 GRANT HAY (NSW) Yamaha 500 A PF1
DNS 49 SCOTT A RINALDIS (QLD) Ducati 944 D PF1
DNS 71 GREG TORY (NSW) Suzuki 750 D PF1

Points scored for the weekend overall..
PRE Modern Formula 1 Riders Only
1 7 AARON MORRIS (NSW) Suzuki 750 22 22 25 69
2 77 GRAEME GREAVES (QLD) Ducati 916 15 20 22 57
3 84 CHADD SLADE (NSW) Honda 900 18 18 20 56
4 12 RICHARD EASTON (NSW) BIKE WRECK Yamaha 750 20 13 18 51
5 69 PAUL GRANT-MITCHELL NSW Kawasaki 750 25 25 0 50
6 37 STUART LOMAX (NSW) Yamaha 750 16 14 16 46
7 89 MICHAEL COOK (NSW) CASTLE HILL MOTORCYCLES Suzuki 1000 13 16 11 40
8 113 BRAD PHELAN (QLD) Honda 900 14 11 14 39
9 96 NEIL CROCKFORD (NSW) Yamaha 750 10 12 13 35
10 43 DAVID GILYEAT (NSW) Kawasaki 750 12 9 12 33
11 13 SCOTT PUSEY (NSW) Kawasaki 750 8 10 10 28
12 29 KIRK OSGOOD (NSW) Suzuki 750 7 6 8 21
13 42 SIMON GENEV (NSW) Yamaha 1000 5 7 7 19
14 72 IVAN HOEY (NSW) BIKE WRECK Yamaha 750 11 8 0 19
15 20 STEVE BUTLER (NSW) MOTOTECH Yamaha 1000 0 3 15 18
16 30 BRETT CLARK (NSW) RB RACING Honda 900 0 15 0 15
17 47 DOUG DOYLE (QLD) Kawasaki 750 0 4 9 13
18 2 KEN LINDSAY (NSW) Honda 900 6 5 0 11
19 71 GREG TORY (NSW) Suzuki 750 9 0 0 9
20 3 PETER HINTON (NSW) Yamaha 1000 0 0 0 0
21 9 GRANT HAY (NSW) Yamaha 500 0 0 0 0
22 49 SCOTT A RINALDIS (QLD) Ducati 944 0 0 0 0

Anyway Im over it for a while now. I need to get to the bottom of these fuel problems. So It'll be getting stripped & I'll be going through everything.[for the hundredth time.]
See ya again. Steve.__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

Post by **FZRDude** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:26 am

Steve,

Great showing!! From 36th to 6th?!?!? Good job!

sbutler · Post by **sbutler** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:45 pm

Some random pics hope you like them>>

Thats it for now, Ive run out of money & I have to chase this fuel issue down. Im not going racing & having to spend 3 days working on it. I really had good feelings about this weekend, but I suppose you have these things when your racing a 16 year old bike. But beleive me when its running right, It really does the job!!

stan · Post by **stan** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:25 pm

As i said before, luck is for chumps,

racing is hard for all sorts of reasons, if you drop your head a little, it can be difficult to regain momentum,

I'm sure you will get on top of the issues that have bothered you this weekend Steve, and go better next time out. By the way, there is some very nice names on the list of entries, the Hintons are personal favs

stan

sbutler · Post by **sbutler** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:33 am

Yeah the fuel problems really stuffed the weekend. I need to find out what the hell is going wrong.
The bike runs like a clock all the time, but when you really go for it it seems like it just cant keep the fuel up to it. We know its not the pump because it has the VFR one in there now. It sort of just starts to run out of fuel. Last night when I finished the last race it was running on 3 cyl. This morning I went out turned the key, I could hear the pump buzz for about 3 seconds, then stop. That all sounds right. \
Hit the starter & it fired up like there was never anything wrong!!!!!

So I'll go through everything again. I want to dissconect the low fuel sensor from the, but as soon as I do it tells the computer to stop the pump.[Well thats what I think happens]

So what we did was pluged the reserve switch back in & plugged the low fuel sensor wires back on & it went well. Untill the last race & started to drop a cyl again???????????
So Im buggered if I know were to start.

hotcam · Post by **hotcam** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:37 am

Great result despite your mechanical teething troubles... I hope you
get them sorted out quick.

I had running-out-of-fuel problems once, I raised the fuel level 1.5mm
and haven't had it again. However it was a part-throttle cruise thing,
not at full power like yours.

Could it be a coil overheating? That'd kill 2 cylinders.

Great pics, you're really giving it heaps! You really must have been
flying to get through the pack so many places, well done...

sbutler · Post by **sbutler** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:34 am

I was pretty lucky, the guy on the VFR 38 is a really good rider, so what I lost in the corners, I could gain back in between them. So he was dragging me along a bit. On the last lap I passed him when he got slowed up by another rider. I got on the gas really hard & passed them both of them before the finish line, by about 80m. He came over after the race & we had a great chat. He's now looking for an 89 FZR 1000 he was so impressed with the power of my bike. You could imagine what he said, when I told him it was standard execpt for a muffler & a K&N filter!

Another FZR convert by the looks of things.

Hang on!!!! Then we'll be on even terms

Should have kept my mouth shut!

ozzyfzr · Post by **ozzyfzr** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:01 am

Great effort Steve despite your troubles!
Hit List of things to check:-

Fuel pump - never assume the VFR one is OK, it may be down on flow!
Re-connect all the fuel sensing devices that were removed!
Remove float bowls and check all jets! (believe me I have seen jets fall out!)
Change coils for another pair!
Replace plugs (I have seen plugs fail under load conditions and come good once cooled down)
Do you have any idea what cylinder is going down (check header pipe temps if your not sure)
Do you have a sticking/blocked float needle jet (flooding one cylinder will kill the spark)
Check the routing of all Low tension wiring, pick-up wiring and ensure it is well away from HT wiring

Just a few
Hope it helps
Regards
Ozzyfzr

spook · Post by **spook** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:47 am

So what is bad about the results? Congratulations Mr Butler

I think that the last pix I saw was you ready to load up the day after you had put it back together? Looking at prior photo's there is no argument in relation to how you can ride.

I agree with everyone, but one thing I have noticed is the way these new fuels varnish, acetone won't dissolve it (optimax). It affects plugs equally. (because it creates an insulating layer) Check everything... and WELL DONE!!!!

Stig · Post by **Stig** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:09 pm

no expert here but could it be an air lock...that just happens to knock it down a couple of cylinders until the fuel catches up

just a thought

sbutler · Post by **sbutler** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:21 pm

Thanks guys

All good thoughts & i'll be looking at them all.
Its a funny one thats for sure. The engine is the ducks nuts when it going well.
It just seems like the fuel system is struggling to keep pace. Its fine for 9/10ths racing. But when you reall have to put your head down it cant keep up. Thats why I wanted to remove all the sensors, reserve switch, & just have it run like its on reserve all the time.

But because these things have the sensor in the tank to tell the computer to make the engine miss, so you will hit the reserve switch, I have a feeling thats were the problem is.
On Sat, I connected all that back up, & bridge the switch just to make sure the switch wasnt faulty.

I rememeber when I was running it on the road, it would only run for a 100Ks or so before you had to switch to reserve. You had to have the tank full all the time or you'd need to hit the reserve switch.
Thats why I wanted to disable the whole system & just have it on reserve all the time. We have worked out the burn rate for the tracks so far, so I only need to carry around 6lts.
But with the system in place the tank has to be near full all the time!

Cam when you browsing through the manual, could you find a way of bypassing the whole reserve system??
Im not saying that is the issue, because we changed so much over the weekend, but its just one thing we need to figure out, & then we can forget it. If these anyone that can tell me the "sure fire" way of dissabling this please do????

I was toying with the idea of running the pump via an on/off switch, but that still wont work if the computer is being told[by the sensor] the reserve is needed.
Steve.

hotcam · Post by **hotcam** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:07 pm

There is an internal mechanism/switch in the fuel pump which tells the
fuel pump to turn off when the float bowls are full. It might also be
possible for the fuel pump to overheat. The fact that you
have the problem with 2 different fuel pumps indicates this is probably
not the fault.

The only input you need to the fuel pump is 12 volts.
So you could install a line 12V direct to the battery with a fuse and
on/off switch.

Or if you have a "main" switch that provides switched power then
connect a lead from the output of that, to the fuel pump, to the
engine ground point.
Those would guarantee power to the fuel pump no matter what
the reserve switch and fuel level sensor are doing.

sbutler · Post by **sbutler** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:38 pm

Yes I could do that Cam . BUT the sensor would still tell the computer to shut down two cylinders, wouldn't it??

hotcam · Post by **hotcam** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:18 pm

No because the sensor doesn't shut down 2 cylinders on the ignition side,
ignition keeps going. Instead it turns off power
to the fuel pump, and then the carbs run gradually dry, which gives
that feeling.

Black wire on fuel pump to earth, yellow/black normally goes to relay
but you can connect it to ignition-switched power.

sbutler · Post by **sbutler** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:00 pm

YOO HOO!!!
I'll be onto it this week!!!!
So the fuel level will have no effect on the bike at all?
It will just pump untill it runs the tank dry??
Am I on the right track Cam??

Youdaman CAM.....

hotcam · Post by **hotcam** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:11 am

Yes that's right.

You might want to be careful to switch it off IF it does run dry,
in case it burns out from the pump running and getting hot while
dry. I know this can happen on injected BMWs, I don't know if it can
happen on FZRs.

You know, I think if you ignore all the lights and sensors and
switches and starters and etc, it might be a fairly simple thing
to make up a FZR Race wiring loom from scratch.

sbutler · Post by **sbutler** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:34 am

hotcam wrote:Yes that's right.

You know, I think if you ignore all the lights and sensors and
switches and starters and etc, it might be a fairly simple thing
to make up a FZR Race wiring loom from scratch.

For you maybe? I cant work out wiring, its my "blond point" to mototcycles. I can get the things to stop & handle though.
I seem to be able to ride them. But understanding wiring