Motogp 2009.

owdamer · Post by **owdamer** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:32 pm

Ok guys,
Whats the predictions for this year?
Rossi to retain it or Stoner to steal it back?
What about Nicky's chances on the Duke?
Latest news is that Kawasaki will announce on the 5th Jan that they are pulling out leaving Hopper and Melandri without a ride. Other stories suggest that Hopper may take his Monster sponsorship and steal CE's yamaha from under him.
One things for sure, There's going to have to be drastic changes if the series is to survive as there just isn't enough money to go round if things go on as they are.
34 days til the next test.

kev123 · Post by **kev123** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:35 pm

Toseland to romp it, just like lewis!

then followed by lorenzo and rossi.

stan · Post by **stan** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:50 pm

The control tyre will make it more interesting, and less like a lottery in relation to having the right tyre/brand to be on for a particular weekend

But as in F1, WSBK, WRC who all run spec tyres, the cream always rises to the top

Rossi, Stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, Hayden,......then the rest of them

Honerable mention to Sete, who could've stayed retired, and really, what difference to the world championship will Kawazaki leaving have???

Stan

Post by **FZRDude** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:17 pm

Wow, I'm way behind the times. Just read up on Sete's leaving retirement...

Could be a good showing, but he's getting old (comparatively speaking).

owdamer · Post by **owdamer** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:19 am

kev123 wrote:Toseland to romp it, just like lewis! then followed by lorenzo and rossi.

Much as i'd like to see Toseland win, I just dont see that happening.

And as for Sete, I really dont know why he's coming back and I cant see him being around for more than a year.
Just read about a meeting between ALL the motogp manufacturers being held in Japan next week to discuss costs. One topic that has beeen suggested is to return to the ways of the 70's and 80s. Manufacturers would sell "production prototypes" to teams rather than lease them.
Maybe the reasoning behind this is that the teams to sell the bikes down to lower level teams at the end of the season so that the grid isn't just full of this years bike.
I do love the motogp class, but when you look at the teams that have fallen by the wayside (or simply not joined) in such a short timescale its quite sad.
Aprillia. Uncompetitive
BMW. Joined wsbk instead, will they be competitive there?
Ilmor. How long did they last?
KTM. Engine suppliers to Team Roberts.
Kawasaki. remains to be announced but probably out.
Team Roberts. Once one of the biggest teams, dubbed the "Evil Empire"
Sauber. We supposed to be in Motogp from the start but ended up as the uncompetitive Petronas wsbk.
Team WCM. Unable to raise the funds for a motogp so entered a "modified" R1.

Who's next?

kiwi60 · Post by **kiwi60** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:19 pm

I think the fact of the matter is that MotoGP is getting BORING!!!!!

(Now that statement is going to stir up some reaction...)

After the first few laps, the races generally settle down to Rossi, Stoner, Pedrosa, and with the odd exception, that's how it stays.
With 18 (or less) bikes on the grid, there isn't much that's going to change this year.

When we went over to MotoGP a couple of years ago, I thought it was a great experience and I really wanted to see the 990's before they were gone, but frankley WSB is where the action is at for both the fans and the manufacturers (win on Sunday - sell on Monday), and the battles are fantastic.

BMW don't expect to win immediatley - but with their experience in Touring Cars F! etc, the will - sooner rather than later.
Aprillia's vast experience in 125 / 250 / GP will bring results, as will KTM's - the thing is, their out there trying where as it's just not feasible in MotoGP.

If GP goes back to the formula of the 70's & '80's of supplying customer bikes then it will survive, otherwise it's probably just going to fade away.

If you look back - MotoGP's major changes (2stroke - 4 stroke< 990 to 800cc) have been driven by Honda, so has Honda killed GP?

Let the debate continue...

Post by **Hooligan** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:42 pm

yes, the gp class has gotten as boring as the f1 series.

can some of that be based on the fact that the machines are becoming less and less reliant on the skill of the rider/driver? not saying that anyone can just hop on and win, but look back at the time when the machine was brutal beast and it took all of the rider/driver's skill to keep it moving forward quickly. now, you can tune an engine's response for every corner on the track.

back to 2009 gp. don't like sete, never have, never will. people seem to forget that he was around for a long time before his two seasons of high results. before that, i don't recall him ever really doing anything notable.

i think rossi will have his hands full this year.

kiwi60 · Post by **kiwi60** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:22 pm

don't like sete, never have, never will. people seem to forget that he was around for a long time before his two seasons of high results. before that, i don't recall him ever really doing anything notable.

i think rossi will have his hands full this year.

owdamer · Post by **owdamer** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:58 pm

Honda thought that the bike. not the rider was the most important part of the package, so the rider (Rossi) left and promptly won again on a yamaha.
Where did the other Yamaha's finish that year? 7th, 12th & 13th.
In fact if you add the points of the other yamaha riders up you are still 38 points behind Rossi.
Its the same story with the ducati. Stoner was the only guy to run consistantly at the front last year, although I do wonder if he could do that if you took the electronics package off him.
I'll admit that some of the motogp races have been a bit procession like, but i dont think you can compare it to F1 just yet.
I love the superbike class, but i'd like motogp to survive as i think the premier class just be proper racebikes, not just factory proddy bikes.

Just read that Kawasaki may hand over their bikes & riders to Jorge Martinez so that he can run them under the aspar racing banner. Its a pretty good get out clause for Kawasaki if its true as they have a contract with dorna to provide 2 bikes until the end of 2011. Seeing as the bikes are already made and they're going to have to pay hopkins and melandris wages anyway it seems like the best solution.

spook · Post by **spook** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:20 pm

I love both series, but for me the Supers, are by far a better competition. It's the peoples championship. You could purchase an identical bike to that which James Toslands won the championship on, (in the same year) from Ten Kate Honda.

At the event, you can get to your favorite spot at the track on your bike, and leave your helmet in the tent. All the crustiness is absent at the event! One year I was camped next to Kevin Curtins mum and dad David and Carol, they had driven down from NSW to watch their Son race.

And this year, hell what a corker it's going to be! Bring it on

stan · Post by **stan** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:32 pm

Moto GP = Prototype racing

WSBK = Production racing

Dorna have completly lost the plot with Moto GP. How can you have a prototype racing class running spec tyres?? Involvment in Moto GP is for the pure art of racing, the devlopment of new technologies, a showcase of the pinical of what motorcycle engineers can deliver from racing. The fact that so may teams have tried in Moto GP and failed just shows you how bloody hard it is.

I'm sadened when people refer to Moto GP as boring, since i started watching GP's in the mid 80's we have gone from 2-strokes to 4-strokes, 500 to 990 to 800cc, valve spring to pneumatic valves, steel to carbon brake discs, carbs to increadibly complex electronic motorcycle managment systems, extensive use of carbon fibres....the racing in Moto GP might be boring, but the technology certinally is 'nt.

Perhaps in the end Honda will get there wish of a world Honda Cup, a grid full of 20 800cc bikes, sold to teams who raise their own funds, a bit like the 70's and 80's

Go Casey

stan

spook · Post by **spook** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:44 pm

It's not just tires Stan. How about the proposed replacement for 250's? Production engines in prototype chassis. The factories won't even have to be involved. If they are, will we see the innovations on our 600 production bikes. They are diluting/destroying their own niche, and standing on WSBK's toes at the same time. Stupid and rude!

kiwi60 · Post by **kiwi60** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:44 pm

I just typed a long post, but after reading it, it just seemed a bit too depressing to put it up.

Hopefully there are some good answers somewhere to the MotoGP problems, as the super hero's riding those machines derseve some.

F1 used to also be a sport that a smaller builder like Cooper & Lotus could have a go at, but technology has changed that as well - is this the price of progress.

The last back yard builder to upset the factories was our very own John Britten, but even that was a while ago now.

Here's hoping for better watching this year

spook · Post by **spook** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:59 pm

kiwi60 wrote:I just typed a long post, but after reading it, it just seemed a bit too depressing to put it up.

Put it up Kiwi....

kiwi60 · Post by **kiwi60** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:16 am

That would mean I have to think again today - and a stunning bottle of wine seems to be working against that happening - hic

Post by **Hooligan** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:18 am

don't get me wrong, the technological innovations that have come from the prototype classes, both two wheels and four, have all been incredible. plus, we eventually see that technology on our production machines not only in the other racing series but our garages as well.

but, the motogp problem is becoming the same problem plaguing f1. developmental costs are overshadowing the racing, pushing teams of highly talented engineers, racers, builders right out of the sport. look at harris, roc, elf, sauber, ilmor, etc.

ozzyfzr · Post by **ozzyfzr** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:16 am

Just look at any form of motorsport and the position of the teams at the end of the year

1st Highest development budget and biggest mega-dollar sponsors
2nd Next highest development Budget and second biggest sponsorship dollars
3rd Blah Blah
4th Blah Blah

It will always be this way!!!! Money will buy results!!!!!!

Bring it back to

Carburettors no FI
No Electronic gimmicks such as Traction or Launch Control
No Carbon Fibre
No application of different mapping (1 fixed map)
No Electronic clutch management

All over 1000cc 4stroke engines - either twin-triple or multi
No fudge factor for twins (you wanna win, make it win- same rules)

Bring it back to good old rider ability!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for MotoGP GO ROSSI!!

Just my 2c's
Ozzyfzr

stan · Post by **stan** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:48 am

Ozzy, bringing the top level of motorcycle racing back to the dark ages might increase the racing on track, but the fact remains moto gp remains a prototype series, read the article on Honda's NR series in the current AMCN

I agree that money will buy results, always has, always will, but racing at moto gp level has not been close for many years, Rainey, Doohan, then Rossi, all three dominated the class, the only time we had close racing was the in between years, Schawntz, Graville', Roberts Jnr. We didn't really see close racing when Hayden or Stoner won their titles

Racing improved the breed, riders lives will utimatly be saved by the traction control and other aids incorporated on new road bikes, technology developed and refined in Moto GP

again.......Go Casey

stan

owdamer · Post by **owdamer** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:48 am

I love both series, but for me the Supers, are by far a better competition. It's the peoples championship. You could purchase an identical bike to that which James Toslands won the championship on, (in the same year) from Ten Kate Honda.

You may well be able to buy a bike that looks like the one that wins the championship, but thats where the similarity ends.
Even in the bsb series a factory suzuki was over the £100k mark.
Not so sure about banning carbon fibre either. They banned carbon brakes in wsbk and it increased the costs. They were warping disks at every meeting where as a set of carbon ones would last a season...

ace of spades · Post by **ace of spades** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:06 am

When we went over to MotoGP a couple of years ago, I thought it was a great experience and I really wanted to see the 990's before they were gone, but frankley WSB is where the action is at for both the fans and the manufacturers (win on Sunday - sell on Monday), and the battles are fantastic

I like both, but lets be honest, supers are a lot more interesting at the moment. The ballistic factor might change things, but I don't think so. There are a lot more riders running production machines of (mostly) comparable power. More riders means more passes and more dices. You can look at the first bunch and it is interesting and then at the same time there is a major battle going on with the middle and last bunch.

Technology wise GP must really stay and must be supported, coz if they werent there we wouldn't be riding the brilliant scoots thats on the market nowadays. Can maybe try a little cost reduction to level the field a bit, but it will definately stagnate the development. Tires must be open for all. Just look at the tyres we got in a relatively short space of time and that came straight from race development.

Not an expert, just my opinions