Suspension up-grades?

[spook]

A subjective and contentious issue I know, so without further ado the question is this:

How many seconds per lap are suspension up-grades worth on a say 3km track?

I have some 04 r6 forks for my ow01, Yamaha's last incarnation of high performance conventional forks, what's the real world pay-off of spending $$ on them?

[sbutler]

How longs a peice of string spook??

A very hard Q to A
I know on the FZR the biggest laptime improvement was the fork angle change, & the ractech springs. It had no clicker at all on the forks, but with some tuning & trial they worked a treat.
The Thunderace forks are very good for RWU forks so R6 jobbies should work well.

I would say refresh the OWO1 forks with some springs & the like & it could be worth ??? Who knows? Its more the confidence you get when you think things are working as good as you can get them, that is were the time is made. More a mental thing I suppose..
What im saying is, I cant answer your question.

[duke22]

Save your money and stick with the originals would be my suggestion.
The OW forks were made for racing and were pretty highly regarded - the R6 forks are mass produced roadbike items. Unless you can get some kitted items off a racebike I can't think they'd be any better than the OW originals.

I had the full upgrade on the FZR, Racetech springs and updated damping at the front, Ohlins at the back, loads of expense, and I don't think it made a lot of difference to my lap times. The bike is nicer to ride - less dive under brakes, no fork chatter in fast corners, better over the bumps. The problem is, I'm not a good enough rider to take real advantage of the improvements.

I would leave the original forks on, when you've got to the stage where you are sure they are holding you back then start thinking about an upgrade.

[JasonL]

My immediate thoughts are:

1/ how many corners has your 3km track got
2/ How good or bad is the suspension to begin with?

I agree with Duke, the suspension work I had done hasn't given me a vast improvement in laptimes but it has made it far easier and enjoyable to ride. Which also means safer.

To answer your question, on a 3km track I'd say half to 1 second a lap.

[Mike_SS]

How many seconds per lap are suspension up-grades worth on a say 3km track?

Who knows!

I had my suspension 'set up' by a guy who knows what he is doing recently and I also changed tyre brands. Went out and slashed my PB in the first session. The bike just seemed to steer so much better.

I then went out on my roadie with treaded tyres and and equalled my previous PB on the race bike!!

After much consideration all I could come up was that suspension that is working and set up gives you more confidence though a greater feeling of control. I could put the Yamaha more where I wanted it rather than it taking me wherever it wanted to go.

So I think that getting what you have got working as good as possible is the best first step (sort of what steve was saying I think)

My 2c worth

[sickle44]

I'd be inclined to agree with Steve on this one Spook. The OW01 forks would have likely been quite top shelf and besides the radial brake setup of the R6 fork, I'd doubt you gain much over a set of properly tweeked OW01 forks. There are plenty of ways to liven up old forks, catridge kits, damping rod mods, springs, oil, so many things can be done with the internals that's it hard to believe you couldn't get what you were after eventually. I too felt the miraculous change to my machine with raising the butt end up and a set of Ohlins springs up in the front, it turned the FZR from a slow turning truck into WOW!! Reckon if you really wanted to change the front end, I think there's still a $4500 set of Ohlins race forks for sale dude.

Really, the major reason I've dumped my front end is Frank's going on a major diet and I wanted the radial brakes, not to mention an easier way to carry newer and lighter more modern wheels.

Hope this helps

[hotcam]

I know that I got 8 seconds at Broadford from fork springs and valves, and new tyres. I don't know how much from each.

I don't know how much better/worse the design is for an OW01 fork
versus the R6 fork. If the OW01 fork is adequate and not the thing holding
you back, then changing might not give much benefit. However if it IS the
thing holding you back, then maybe big gains.

There is an article VERY related that might answer the question, I'm sure
it was at visordown.com but I can't find it for looking, I've been looking
for 20 minutes ...
In the article the testers put various 'improvements' on a Kawasaki and
sent it out on track with an experienced rider to see how much faster it got.
Then they removed one improvement and put in the next.
The single biggest improvement was setting the suspension correctly. It
gained 6 seconds compared to the manufacturer's standard settings.
As a comparison, fancy tyres gained 1.5 seconds and a
slipon exhaust gained 0.5 seconds.
Strangely, a fancy Showa shock cost a few seconds (presumably it wasn't
set up right).

[spook]

Thanks guys, some food for thought there. The OW forks are coming off it as most of the oem components are, just so I've got them to put back on undamaged when I've finished racing it or decide to sell.

The OW01 forks in 89 were advanced, and I have been told work well with some set-up (probably valving etc.)

The 04 R6 forks although almost identical externally, have to embody some improvement you would think...15 years down the track? These are the forks that many a national Super-sport series required to remain in the bike, with only internal improvements/mods. I chose the 04's as they have the longest stroke, out of all of them.

For the beginning I will just change the oil with the best quality synthetic I can find. I will probably race tech valve them in the end.

I need to send the Ohlins rear shock away for a service (20 years old), and some longer lines to the reservoirs/ pre-load adjuster. Might do the forks at the same time, they actually look like a cartridge set up oem.

Cheers

[spook]

I've just done a simple comparison bouncing on the end of the OW and then the R6 fork and the OW feels like a pogo stick and the R6 like it really is working. I adjusted the rebound and compression on both to middle.

[Mike_SS]

I've just done a simple comparison bouncing on the end of the OW and then the R6 fork and the OW feels like a pogo stick and the R6 like it really is working. I adjusted the rebound and compression on both to middle

This is about where we started with the YZF. In the end the most important thing was to have some range of adjustment. The wider that range of adjustment the better. For rebound the rear shock has 40 clicks of adjustment but the first 20 don't really do anthing and the usable range was over about 5 clicks. On the front the usable range was only 3 clicks!

If there is no or little difference between the max and min settings then you have a problem.

[kiwi60]

'bout 4 seconds a lap instantly for me, and a whole lot of confidence.

[spook]

Just got a response re: upgrades to the suspension on tho OW from Terry hay at shock treatment. Interesting:

"The R6 front end will be a massive improvement but it can be made even
better.We raced an R6 for a few years and have some really good settings.
Obviously the springs will need to be changed to suit the heavier 750 but
the stock valves are a good design and respond to re-configuring. The
Ohlins shock is a quality item but these days is a little behind the
times. We usually fit a separation valve and revalve the shimstack. This
works well and transforms the bike."

[hotcam]

I would tend to take Terry Hay at his word... sounds like the art of
valving has progressed in modern times and that will help...
I can't wait to see that OW01 on the track, but I think Flipper the Purple Dolphin will arrive sooner

[FZRDude]

.... Flipper the Purple Dolphin will arrive sooner...

You mean the "Dolphin-headed purple plasma TLR thing"?

[spook]

Heading in the right direction with it Cam??? lol.

Think I will have the valving on the shock done, and based on the above advice leave the forks as is bar new oil, at least for the time being.

[Mike_SS]

Just about done then

[sickle44]

Hey that kinda looks familiar, although, you've got to pull things apart a bit more yet.

[FZRDude]

Looks like the tail (head?) on that TLR has moved over to the right now? :ha

again prob just the angle....

[Big Jon]

So the question has been answered, tell us, how much C4 does it take to blow up a yamaha?

[spook]

Just had a thought, I'm going to have to re-spring, so I may as well get the whole job done

Also, this is twice I've been pleasantly surprised by Terry at shock treat.

First is when I needed base settings and installation info for race tech emulators. Terry set me straight over the phone, when no one else not even RaceTech would respond to my enquires. And in this case, he could have sold me a set of racetech valves (he's an agent). but instead, once again gives what I believe is good advice, rather than selling what you don't need.

Rare these days. As a result I will happily send my stuff interstate, and I'm confident what i get back will be surpurb!

So the question has been answered, tell us, how much C4 does it take to blow up a yamaha?

Don't need C4 Big Jon